Attic discoveries

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PieterPenninckx
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Attic discoveries

Post by PieterPenninckx »

Hi all,

I've just uploaded my newest piece of music, titled attic discoveries. Enjoy!

Just as with the first piece I posted on this forum, I started with a "piano" midi improvisation and added some extra voices with the mouse. This time, I moved some notes from the piano to other instruments (mainly the horn). This is more away from classical music and in the direction of sound design than my previous work. I hope to one day be able to combine sound design with melodies and harmonies that are (less or more) classically structured.

In this piece of music, I explored two new things.
The first is Spitfire Audio LABS, which is a free (as in free beer) sample library for Windows, which I could use with yabridge. (Thank you, @robbert-vdh !). I' enthusiastic about yabridge, but not so much about Spitfire Audio LABS. Maybe my expectations were too high (somebody recommended it to me, saying it was much better than for instance Virtual Playing Orchestra).
The second thing I explored is ... my own voice :D . It's my first piece of music in which I sing. I first used a choir sample library (from Spitfire Audio LABS), but I wasn't too enthusiastic, so I decided to give singing a try. I'm not so sure about my own voice, but I reasoned that me + some pitch correction would still sound ok and that using some pitch correction is less "cheating" than using a sample library. (I know somebody who has devoted her life to singing, so in that context, so I hesitated a little to use pitch correction.) In the first part where I sing, I used three layers of my voice, each with x42-autotune. For the second part (at the very end) (which I recorded separately), I prepared a more clear "guiding track" that I listened to while recording. I then believed it was good enough without pitch correction, so there you are.

I've also upgraded Qtractor ... and discovered that now it can show a "ghost track" :-) This was a pleasant surprise since it was a feature that I wanted for a long time (and that has been in Qtractor for some time; I just needed to upgrade). I use the "ghost track" when editing midi to ensure that the note onsets are consistent and to ensure that the notes fit into chords. It's much more convenient than my previous approach.

The (virtual and real) instruments are (from the top of my head):
* piano: Salamander Grand Piano with Linuxsampler
* strings: Spitfire Audio LABS Strings 2
* cello and French horn: Virtual Playing Orchestra with Linuxsampler
* choir: several layers of my voice, with and without x42-autotune, with some EQ (Calf) and without and with reverb from Calf Studio Gear
* effects: some cymbal crescendo and tubular bells from VSCO 2 CE, with sfizz

I didn't use Ardour this time and used more mixing features from Qtractor.

Some lessons I learned
  • It was a good idea to upgrade Qtractor, now I have a feature that I've wanted for a long time :-)
  • Virtual Playing Orchestra is not so bad in my eyes, even when compared with commercial sample libraries.
  • Using a workflow that I find fun seems to give the best results.
  • I can sing (a little) :-)
  • It payed off to prepare a clear "guiding track" to sing along with when recording.
Acknowledgements
I really couldn't do this without you, so I would like to thank (in no particular order)
  • @rncbc , for Qtractor. This is what I had been looking for for a long time when I wanted to make music with Linux.
  • @robbert-vdh for yabridge
  • @jeanette_c, for showing the courage to use your own voice, even when you're unsure about it. I wouldn't have done the choir myself without your example. Thank you so much!
  • @Rainmak3r, for showing the possibilities of Virtual Playing Orchestra with your symphonic poems
  • the moderators of this forum, for creating a place where people like me can post their music and get only friendly comments
  • the other LinuxMusicians, for making inspiring music and showing what is possible.
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Rainmak3r
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Re: Attic discoveries

Post by Rainmak3r »

A truly gorgeous piece, unfortunately way too short: I was definitely pining for more! The piano sounds amazing: I also use Salamander, and it never sounded that good. In general, I think you did an excellent job on the orchestration, and on picking the right sounds. To my ears it sounds like a track that would feel right at home as music for a Scandi noir series (it did remind me of Deadwind/Karppi, whose soundtrack is similar in vibe).
PieterPenninckx wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:47 pm The first is Spitfire Audio LABS, which is a free (as in free beer) sample library for Windows, which I could use with yabridge. (Thank you, @robbert-vdh !). I' enthusiastic about yabridge, but not so much about Spitfire Audio LABS. Maybe my expectations were too high (somebody recommended it to me, saying it was much better than for instance Virtual Playing Orchestra).
Are you sure they didn't recomment the free BBC Orchestra VST by Spitfire? That's the only one that does provide all instruments in the orchestra.

Spitfire LABS, on the other end, is a VST container that can be used with any of the free instruments they offer as part of LABS, which is not a full orchestra, though: most of the instruments, there, are actually experimental recordings of quite unique things. I'm personally very fond of LABS, and I use them often, but of course the quality varies: I see you used their vanilla "Strings 2", which is indeed not very impressive. The "Frozen Strings" and "Scary Strings", for instance, are much cooler as they provide very unique sounds for strings (that I abused extensively in Dreams), even though of course they can't be used if what you're looking for is a more traditional string section. Dulcimer and Arctic Swells are quite fun too.

That said, I was not aware of yabridge, I'll have to look into it: for Spitfire plugins I usually use DSSi VST, or LinVST when I need it in Ardour (which I don't often do, though, preferring to use it externally).
PieterPenninckx wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:47 pm [*] Virtual Playing Orchestra is not so bad in my eyes, even when compared with commercial sample libraries.
It is incredibly flexible! I only recently found out, for instance, that there's DXF (Dynamic Cross Faded) variants for the brass section, that allows you to dynamically change the sample used while you're playing a note (e.g., to make a horns section grow in power on a chord and then fade out). The ability to use the mod wheel to tweak the attack is also something I use often, besides the different articulations of course, especially on strings (which is why I created my own versions of the SFZ files to change them on the fly using a custom MIDI CC)
PieterPenninckx wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:47 pm * cello and French horn: Virtual Playing Orchestra with Linuxsampler
* effects: some cymbal crescendo and tubular bells from VSCO 2 CE, with sfizz
Why LinuxSampler and not sfizz for VPO? I used LS in the past too, but it's way more CPU expensive than sfizz. Unfortunately now sfizz seems to have a bug that causes it to freeze the Ardour UI for a few seconds any time you stop playback (the freeze lasts longer the more sfizz instances are loaded), but nevertheless it's worth using it for pretty much all SFZs out there.

Any specific reason why you used VSCO 2 CE for cymbals and tubular bells? Those are in VPO as well (possibly taken from VSCO itself), and especially for cymbals there's custom samples for crescendos (that I abuse all the time for theatrical effect :mrgreen: )
PieterPenninckx wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:47 pm [*] @Rainmak3r, for showing the possibilities of Virtual Playing Orchestra with your symphonic poems
I'm glad that I played a little part in this, especially considering what you just shared! I'm myself currently working on a big project, a 18 minute progressive rock song that has a full orchestra (using VPO) playing along rock instruments, which is proving quite challenging but also very cool so far.

I'm definitely looking forward to more orchestral efforts from you now!
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Re: Attic discoveries

Post by jeanette_c »

Hey hey Pieter, this is a beautiful piece. I would have loved to hear more of it. :) The strings sound nice, but they are limited. I think, when it comes to the Spitfire Audio LABs the piano is the best, if you enjoy that particular moderated sound. Still, it's nice, but it's good to know that the VPO compares well.
I like your subtle choir. When it comes to multiple takes of one line, you can get away with a lot, even without pitch correction. That is why my choruses mostly sound the best, if I sing at all. :)
I think the little more low shelf or highpass filtering would have made the sound more ethereal. I think you made a much better start than I have ever made. Perfect spotlighting of resources. :)
Thanks for sharing and for the kind words!
Best wishes, Jeanette
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distro: ArchLinux, DAW: Nama, MIDI sequencer: Midish
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Re: Attic discoveries

Post by milo »

This is really nice! The instruments are well balanced, and the choir adds a fantastic texture to the piece. Good job all around. More, please!
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Re: Attic discoveries

Post by folderol »

Very enjoyable, but so short!
It feels like an introduction to something much longer.
The Yoshimi guy {apparently now an 'elderly'}
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Loki Harfagr
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Re: Attic discoveries

Post by Loki Harfagr »

I hope you'll take my warning seriously, as well as the others who underlined the hardest problem which lies in your piece:
It's damn too short! :)
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Re: Attic discoveries

Post by LAM »

Great @PieterPenninckx, I would absolutely love to hear a 2nd (and a 3d part) of it.

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Re: Attic discoveries

Post by Basslint »

Wow, absolutely great! Sounds like a movie soundtrack :D
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Re: Attic discoveries

Post by OccinticLady »

oooo, nice! I could imagine the attic, dusty, cobwebs yet...inviting. Waiting to be discovered...super well done.
Thank you so much for posting...
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Re: Attic discoveries

Post by bsg75 »

Beautiful!
I agree with the others: too short.
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Re: Attic discoveries

Post by PieterPenninckx »

Thanks all for your generous feedback! It could be sample material for a course on "how to write compliments".
Rainmak3r wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:03 pm The piano sounds amazing: I also use Salamander, and it never sounded that good.
I've created a mini-tutorial with some tips.
Rainmak3r wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:03 pm Are you sure they didn't recomment the free BBC Orchestra VST by Spitfire?
Ah, you're right, I was recommended the BBC Orchestra. I've filled in the questionaire to get the discovery edition. It's funny that "Linux" was an answer option for the question about what OS you use :D
Rainmak3r wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:03 pm Why LinuxSampler and not sfizz for VPO?
I use the midi CC event for crescendo/decrescendo and the lv2 sfizz plugin doesn't seem to respond to that. It could also be a Qtractor issue; the stand-alone jack client works well.
Rainmak3r wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:03 pm Any specific reason why you used VSCO 2 CE for cymbals and tubular bells? Those are in VPO as well (possibly taken from VSCO itself), and especially for cymbals there's custom samples for crescendos (that I abuse all the time for theatrical effect :mrgreen: )
Ah, you're right. In VPO, they're even organised more clearly. I think I looked at VSCO 2 CE first. I think of VPO as a more "generic" sound and VSCO as a more "special" sound and I was looking for something special, that will probably be the reason.
Rainmak3r wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:03 pm I'm myself currently working on a big project, a 18 minute progressive rock song
18 seconds, that's about a third of the average length of my music.
Rainmak3r wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:03 pm 18 minute
Just kidding.
Really: :shock: Oh my, that would take me ages :D
Rainmak3r wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:03 pm I'm definitely looking forward to more orchestral efforts from you now!
Then I've got good news for you: I'm working on an orchestral piece (approx 3 minutes, this time) and it's promising (at least to me). Stay tuned :-)
jeanette_c wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:36 pm I think the little more low shelf or highpass filtering would have made the sound more ethereal.
Actually: I did the opposite. I had started the choir with a sample library (also from Spitfire Audio LABS) and the sound was great, but the note transitions were too slow. Then I thought: "Well, I've got a voice as well and @jeanette_c has demonstrated how to use that, so let's give it a try." So then I added my recording to the "mix" and edited it. At that stage, the volume was quite high (to be lowered later) since I wanted to clearly hear what I was editing. However, listering in context, it seemed to be very weird. It was way too ethereal and it didn't fit the rest of the music. So I applied a high cut filter. That didn't make it un-ethereal, but after lowering the volume to a more appropriate level (which I had intended to do anyways), it sounded good. I think the ethereal effect will probably be due to my untrained singing technique which is very "breathy" (at least for a classical repertoire). The second part was recorded separately. There I tried to sing less breathy and I also changed the position of the mic (more towards my chest than towards my mouth). The result was still quite ethereal, so I think I've applied a low cut filter there as well.
jeanette_c wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:36 pm Thanks for sharing and for the kind words!
You're welcome!
Loki Harfagr wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:20 am I hope you'll take my warning seriously, as well as the others who underlined the hardest problem which lies in your piece:
It's damn too short!
Ok, I got the message :D
My workflow starts from an improvisation. The up side is that composing and defining the structure of the music takes literally one minute (if I have luck, which I did in this case: this was the first take), the downside is that ... well ... the listening experience is also one minute :-)
Basslint wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:14 am Wow, absolutely great! Sounds like a movie soundtrack
Thank you, mission accomplished :-)

milo, folderol, LAM, OccinticLady, bsg75, thank you for your comments!
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