Mellow - another sound-on-sound sketch

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forestandgarden
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Mellow - another sound-on-sound sketch

Post by forestandgarden »

http://alooshu.byethost17.com/mellow.mp3

compared to c-drone, there are several changes here: I've taken the setup out of Ardour and into Carla, so rather than multitracking, I'm doing everything live here, and only with one guitar, an acoustic tuned 'baritone', a 4th down to B, very slack strings.

Bringing sound-on-sound delay, drone- and arp instrument into Carla, had the principal advantage that I could integrate everything with my existing, dynamic, 3-channel guitar FX rack - you may remember, an expander, plus several sidechained comp/gates are making it so that the guitar is routed into clean or dist channels depending on playing dynamics, while a 3rd channel is flying in some mystic sound tail - now what I'm doing here, is routing exclusively the clean part into the long, pseudo-loopy (92% feedback) sound-on-sound delay. Like that, I can use lower intensity playing to 'fill' the loop with bass, harmonic, & other elements, while when I 'shift gear' and solo, this sound will pass via a different channel, and not muddle up the playback loop.

Another trick I'm using here, is setting the host BPM to 1/4 the real value, e.g. 30 for 120 BPM - this is so that when using host sync on the delay, the largest available delay value, a whole note, is becoming 4 bars in fact. It also implies e.g. putting Helm's arp on 1/32 notes, in order to get real 1/8ths :).

(suggestion: update the existing delays with host sync cap, to allow larger note values like 2, 4, 8 whole notes, or optionally, free n/m values, for odd time signatures and/or polyrhythms. Also optionally, expand max delay times, I didn't find over 8s. Why? Host syncing delays, in a capable host like Carla, are a powerful, modular, and cheap alternative to loopers) (as a perfectionist side thought, host sync could benefit from bi-directional communication with the clients: the common denominator of the note values the synced clients are using, together with the audio sample rate, would determine the necessary rounding of the global BPM value, such that all existing fractions can resolve to whole number frame values = no delay loop sync drift even in hours. Or in other words, the allowed real increment value, in frames, for the host's BPM setting, would depend on what the clients are dividing the beat by. Maybe this adjustment should happen on the fly, since opening the same project with a different sample rate, could change the math)

If there's any demand, I shall be happy to upload the entire Carla patch. I'm still on 2017 AVLiux - it feels so great to know your tools, to be able to focus on creativity rather than adapting to the inevitable (or are they?) new features coming with updates. Now, perhaps, I'd be ready to migrate to something newer, w/o a feeling of getting rushed all the time; as a free user decision rather than an imperative. We'll see, first, I want a large external hdd, as a prerequisite and aid for backing up & migrating.

Enjoy, and never mind the horrible mistake I'm making right when opening my solo - such is impromptu recording ..
some of my stuff is ending up here https://alooshu.byethost17.com and here https://clyp.it/user/i4p5dng1 , and you can love me at https://liberapay.com/aloo_shu
folderol
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Re: Mellow - another sound-on-sound sketch

Post by folderol »

Mellow indeed! Very enjoyable track.
The Yoshimi guy {apparently now an 'elderly'}
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Re: Mellow - another sound-on-sound sketch

Post by forestandgarden »

Thanks folderol :)

As an addendum to my technical rant: I've just done a bit of maths, and at 30 BPM, a whole note is already 8 sec, the maximum delay time offered in manual time adjustment by this delay, yet values of < 30 BPM and hence, > 8s for delay time, are still working when the delay time is set via host sync mode - so at least with some delays, the max delay time is apparantly an arbitrary limit not shared by the backend. So I shall search the limit, being able to do perhaps 8 or 16 bar delays, would of course enhance the useability of delays for looping.

The delay I used, is a-delay (I just added ardour's lv2's to the lv2 search path, which is working, with limitations), ZamDelay looks a lot like it's the same thing with a different GUI.

Another thing I'm possibly going to try out, is routing the delay feedback loop externally, what I want to do, is switch in in a compressor/gate sidechained to the signal that is the delay input, so that stronger playing will duck the delay feedback, and the player is having control whether his playing, in a given moment, will rather go on top of the existing material in the loop, or rather substitute it.
some of my stuff is ending up here https://alooshu.byethost17.com and here https://clyp.it/user/i4p5dng1 , and you can love me at https://liberapay.com/aloo_shu
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Re: Mellow - another sound-on-sound sketch

Post by Rainmak3r »

The way I work with tracks, a purely live approach would never work for me: I often come back to tweak things, and even recording live guitars I do a lot of editing (sometimes using two alternate tracks for what's supposed to be a single one) because of how sloppy a player I am. So it's very hard for me to even conceive something that is not multitracks based :mrgreen:
The end result was quite interesting though, so I'm happy you found something that improved the workflow for you!
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Re: Mellow - another sound-on-sound sketch

Post by milo »

That was awesome! What a cool patch! It takes the guitar performance to another degree of complexity to gate the signal based on the playing intensity. The possibilities are endless. I also like the idea of using a long delay as a looper. I have noticed that most delay plugins are too short for some of the applications I would use them for.
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Re: Mellow - another sound-on-sound sketch

Post by forestandgarden »

Thanks :)

Core of the 'responsive' setup is input (preamp) into both GxExpander, and from there into dist channel, and ZamComp, and from there, into clean channel, where the out of GxExpander goes into the activated sidechain of ZamComp. The Expander needs the most attentive fine tuning.

Wrt. loopy delays, I've done some more testing, choosing bpm host sync, and trying for low bpm to achieve long delays (in 1 whole note setting). Surprise #1: Carla as a jack transport master, doesn't allow BPM values below 20. Ardour does allow anything (Carla as a synced jack transport client will still show 20.00, but act on the real BPM if lower), but surprise #2, with too low BPM, like eg. 7.5, making the delay 32,000ms, or 4x the manual max, on a-delay.lv2, bad things do happen. Like, your $500 monitors blown if you weren't prepared or protected-bad, potentially.

Both my Carla and my Ardour are 4 years old, so it's possible some of this has been addressed. Anyway, I guess the next test will be chaining 4 or 8 delay instances, all on wet, and doing both the mix with the dry signal and the mixing in of the feedback (will the host let me?) outside the delays.

Any clues to floss lv2 or ladspa delays with host sync, and long delays / multiple bar length sync values, welcome.
some of my stuff is ending up here https://alooshu.byethost17.com and here https://clyp.it/user/i4p5dng1 , and you can love me at https://liberapay.com/aloo_shu
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