La Nouvelle Avantgarde (New Wave)

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lilith
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La Nouvelle Avantgarde (New Wave)

Post by lilith »

First collaboration project done with Type-A (link to his SoundCloud page in the description).

https://soundcloud.com/lilith_93/la-nouvelle-avantgarde

It was quite a new experience exporting every track to stems and sharing it via the cloud. In the end it was almost 3 GB :lol: At least now we both have Bitwig and the same cloud provider. Now he just have to move to Linux :mrgreen:.

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Rainmak3r
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Re: La Nouvelle Avantgarde (New Wave)

Post by Rainmak3r »

Pulling off this kind of remote collaborations must be really rewarding! I really like the track, and as usual you do a really clever usage of voice samples. I hear some interesting harmonic choices as well: I've always liked minor chords moving one into another (I use them often myself), and the main theme in your track has an interesting and unusual transition from Cm to Ebm that gives it an area of mystique. Nice job!

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Re: La Nouvelle Avantgarde (New Wave)

Post by lilith »

Rainmak3r wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:47 am
Pulling off this kind of remote collaborations must be really rewarding! I really like the track, and as usual you do a really clever usage of voice samples. I hear some interesting harmonic choices as well: I've always liked minor chords moving one into another (I use them often myself), and the main theme in your track has an interesting and unusual transition from Cm to Ebm that gives it an area of mystique. Nice job!
Actually there's something wrong with the harmonics :mrgreen: . It really sounds out of tune when the pads set in and indeed it is out of tune. Some people said it sounds completely wrong, but somehow I get used to it. The pads are in Gm, but thanks for the tip with Ebm. Maybe I can fix it with little effort and adjust some notes. The problem is that I added my midi parts in Reaper and later switched to Bitwig. So it's quite a chaos.

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Re: La Nouvelle Avantgarde (New Wave)

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lilith wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:55 am
Rainmak3r wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:47 am
Pulling off this kind of remote collaborations must be really rewarding! I really like the track, and as usual you do a really clever usage of voice samples. I hear some interesting harmonic choices as well: I've always liked minor chords moving one into another (I use them often myself), and the main theme in your track has an interesting and unusual transition from Cm to Ebm that gives it an area of mystique. Nice job!
Actually there's something wrong with the harmonics :mrgreen: . It really sounds out of tune when the pads set in and indeed it is out of tune. Some people said it sounds completely wrong, but somehow I get used to it. The pads are in Gm, but thanks for the tip with Ebm. Maybe I can fix it with little effort and adjust some notes. The problem is that I added my midi parts in Reaper and later switched to Bitwig. So it's quite a chaos.
I don't know, it doesn't feel out of tune to me: if I listen to what starts at 0:46, for instance (where about 10s later the first Cm to Ebm happens), I think it sounds unconvential but nice. My theoretical knowledge of harmony is poor, but chord and melody together seem to form an Ebm with a diminished fifth (A is played where the fifth in Eb is Bb), which forms a nice triad. You may have stumbled upon that on accident, but I think it sounds really cool, and not out of tune at all :mrgreen:

Of course, if it's not what you meant, it makes sense to "fix" it: just saying that IMHO you don't really need to.

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Re: La Nouvelle Avantgarde (New Wave)

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Rainmak3r wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:05 am
lilith wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:55 am
Rainmak3r wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:47 am
Pulling off this kind of remote collaborations must be really rewarding! I really like the track, and as usual you do a really clever usage of voice samples. I hear some interesting harmonic choices as well: I've always liked minor chords moving one into another (I use them often myself), and the main theme in your track has an interesting and unusual transition from Cm to Ebm that gives it an area of mystique. Nice job!
Actually there's something wrong with the harmonics :mrgreen: . It really sounds out of tune when the pads set in and indeed it is out of tune. Some people said it sounds completely wrong, but somehow I get used to it. The pads are in Gm, but thanks for the tip with Ebm. Maybe I can fix it with little effort and adjust some notes. The problem is that I added my midi parts in Reaper and later switched to Bitwig. So it's quite a chaos.
I don't know, it doesn't feel out of tune to me: if I listen to what starts at 0:46, for instance (where about 10s later the first Cm to Ebm happens), I think it sounds unconvential but nice. My theoretical knowledge of harmony is poor, but chord and melody together seem to form an Ebm with a diminished fifth (A is played where the fifth in Eb is Bb), which forms a nice triad. You may have stumbled upon that on accident, but I think it sounds really cool, and not out of tune at all :mrgreen:

Of course, if it's not what you meant, it makes sense to "fix" it: just saying that IMHO you don't really need to.
Here it's more obvious: https://soundcloud.com/lilith_93/master-1/s-xSpsdqNqfEG

But if you say it's fine we leave it like that :lol:

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Re: La Nouvelle Avantgarde (New Wave)

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lilith wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:12 am
Here it's more obvious: https://soundcloud.com/lilith_93/master-1/s-xSpsdqNqfEG

But if you say it's fine we leave it like that :lol:
The only thing that sounds a bit weird to me in that snippet is maybe what can be heard at 15s and 30s, when the chord changes. In that case the accompanying pad, which is playing the loop that starts with a G-Ab-Bb sequence, keeps on playing the same when the chord moves to Eb, where it may be more natural to turn the Ab to A instead (G-A-Bb), especially since A is what the melody plays too. Is that what you're referring to, or is there something else bothering you in the harmonic progression?

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Re: La Nouvelle Avantgarde (New Wave)

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Rainmak3r wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:21 am
lilith wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:12 am
Here it's more obvious: https://soundcloud.com/lilith_93/master-1/s-xSpsdqNqfEG

But if you say it's fine we leave it like that :lol:
The only thing that sounds a bit weird to me in that snippet is maybe what can be heard at 15s and 30s, when the chord changes. In that case the accompanying pad, which is playing the loop that starts with a G-Ab-Bb sequence, keeps on playing the same when the chord moves to Eb, where it may be more natural to turn the Ab to A instead (G-A-Bb), especially since A is what the melody plays too. Is that what you're referring to, or is there something else bothering you in the harmonic progression?
Yes, exactly these two notes sound "wrong". I don't hear what note it is and I need an analyzer. Maybe I can pitch shift it. Do you hear what notes these are by ear?

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Re: La Nouvelle Avantgarde (New Wave)

Post by Rainmak3r »

lilith wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:30 am
Rainmak3r wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:21 am
The only thing that sounds a bit weird to me in that snippet is maybe what can be heard at 15s and 30s, when the chord changes. In that case the accompanying pad, which is playing the loop that starts with a G-Ab-Bb sequence, keeps on playing the same when the chord moves to Eb, where it may be more natural to turn the Ab to A instead (G-A-Bb), especially since A is what the melody plays too. Is that what you're referring to, or is there something else bothering you in the harmonic progression?
Yes, exactly these two notes sound "wrong". I don't hear what note it is and I need an analyzer. Maybe I can pitch shift it. Do you hear what notes these are by ear?
It sounds like the loop in the background plays the following staccato notes the whole time:

G - Ab - Bb - G - G - Bb - C - Bb
G - Ab - Bb - G - Ab - Bb - C - G

When the chord changes to Ebm (with that diminished 5th in, not sure what the chord is really called then) I think it should become:

G - A - Bb - G - G - Bb - C - Bb
G - A - Bb - G - A - Bb - C - G

So maybe just changing those A flats to A may fix it, but I may also be spectacularly wrong :lol:

The notes can remain Ab instead if the chord is not really an Eb minor, but an Eb major: in that case, there's a Gb in the chord that should be G instead. Which makes me think that maybe it's also that G in the notes above that sounds off when the chord moves to Ebm? Not sure, it may be dissonant but it doesn't sound that wrong to me: in case you decide to keep the Ebm chord, you can try changing the G notes of that sequence to Gb (which would make it weirder though, especially for the Gb to A step). Otherwise just changing the chord to Eb major and leave everything intact should fix it too (but maybe would make it a bit less mysterious?)

Hope this is helpful and not even more confusing :mrgreen:

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Re: La Nouvelle Avantgarde (New Wave)

Post by lilith »

The sequence is playing g g# a# g g a# c a# ... with root note c.
The bass is playing c eb f and c c g c
The pad d d# g a a# d

In the beginning the track is Cminor and I think the best is to move to Cdorian when the pad is playing, although the pad is not playing a c. :lol:

D phrygian would also be possible but then the bass does not fit.
Also I will delete the sequence while the pad is playing as the sequence is clearly c minor.

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Re: La Nouvelle Avantgarde (New Wave)

Post by lilith »

I just deleted a synth line and now it's fine.
Thanks Rainmak3r for pointing me into the right direction!

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Re: La Nouvelle Avantgarde (New Wave)

Post by milo »

And now all of us want to collaborate with Rainmak3r! Haha!

I really enjoyed this piece. My ears weren't bothered by its harmonics, maybe because electronic music has always taken liberties with music theory.

Remote collaborations are very doable these days, and they are very rewarding. The pieces can come together very quickly because of the division of labor, and the result is always different than what your solo output would have been -- sometimes in surprising and delightful ways.

But there are some pitfalls. You have to bridle your perfectionism a little bit -- not hobble it, but bridle it. Like any human relationship, there has to be give and take, and the works greased with humility and forgiveness. Some personalities work really well together (Lennon and McCartney), and others don't (Morrissey and Marr).

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Re: La Nouvelle Avantgarde (New Wave)

Post by GMaq »

Hi lilith!

Just wanted to say I enjoyed this one as well, I don't have anything particularly insightful to add this time but like milo I certainly listen to EDM and related stuff with an open mind toward unorthodox things happening melodically and harmonically and sometimes the weirder it is the better even if musical rules are getting broken..

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Re: La Nouvelle Avantgarde (New Wave)

Post by lilith »

Thanks milo and Gmaq.

Currently I'm remixing this song by Type-A.

https://soundcloud.com/typeamusic/amigo ... tes-type-a

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Re: La Nouvelle Avantgarde (New Wave)

Post by jonetsu »

This one has a wholesomeness in the mix. Everything seems to be well balanced, the bass is all right, reverb just in the right amounts, panning is nice. It almost sounds like a full-fledged track (eg. not a demo), if it wasn't for the lead synth that seems to be just a tad out of the ensemble. By not much.
Rainmak3r wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:47 am
Pulling off this kind of remote collaborations must be really rewarding!
It's not that much of a 'pulling off' I find, from recent experience with AJ (1). It's actually quite easy nowadays with the easiness of storing and retrieving files for instance from dropbox. It's actually a lot of fun, since it's so easy to do, no need to be concerned about DAWs, so hopefully I'll revisit the current status of that project in the near term. All that's needed is time, and inspiration.

Cheers.

(1) In Virtual Music Projects "LM-Project-01" section, and at:

https://soundcloud.com/nominal6/lmproject-01v2

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Re: La Nouvelle Avantgarde (New Wave)

Post by Rainmak3r »

I hope that "pulling off" doesn't have any negative or derogatory connotation? If so, that certainly wasn't my intention, quite the opposite! English not being my first language means It still make silly mistakes from time to time...

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