Out of the Void

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Rainmak3r
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Out of the Void

Post by Rainmak3r »

Hi all,

I published a new track yesterday, but the forum was down (at least for me), so I'm only posting about it now:

https://soundcloud.com/lminiero/out-of-the-void

Just as with Lies, this was long in the making. Unlike Lies, though, for which I had written a MIDI at the time, I had the themes for this in my mind for more than 20 years, but only started writing the piano part down last summer. It then took me months to get me back to it and keep working, until I finally finished recording it last night. Not sure why it took so long: in part it may be because it was too complex for young me to sketch; it's also the most personal track I've shared so far, though.

I remember feeling quite down at the time. Not depressed, that's a serious matter that should not be made light of: but I did feel lonely and empty. At one point I remember thinking: "so many songs come from love, happiness, rage, etc.; what inspiration can come when you feel nothing at all?", which is how the "Out of the void" title came up, and stuck. What can come out of the void? Of course, I didn't realize at the time that I was indeed feeling something, and so it wasn't void at all. Those times are past, luckily, so no worries! I wonder what feelings this will give to listeners today, especially in light of the distressing times we're living in (in particular in the US).

Anyway, moving to more on-topic matters, I did experiment a bit more with this, especially for the bass guitar and acoustic guitars:
  • The track was always meant to sound pretty much like it came out: completely acoustic intro (a bit à-la Opeth, I guess), piano verse+bridge, and a more "airy" refrain (that I always loved) that should feel like the culminaton of the whole thing, just to be cut down by the same acoustic guitar as the intro. The piano part in particular was tricky to write down, since it was more complex harmonically than what I'm used to.
  • I originally sketched the piano part down in Lilypond, but then rewrote it in MuseScore, where I added the other scripted instruments as well. I used Salamander to render the piano, but to make it sound closer to what I had in mind, I used the una-corda and sustain pedals: it still doesn't feel as "grand" a grand piano as I'd like, but it's not bad.
  • For strings, I used again a mixture of VPO (the second part) and KH Strings (the whole track). I think they don't sound as well as they did in Lies, but that may be because of how they were orchestrated.
  • For the first time I added a Mellotron as well: I always loved the sound, and found what I think was a nice soundfont for it. I hope it makes the whole thing sound more "progressive" :mrgreen:
  • Drums were as usual DrumGizmo+Muldjord kit, that I tried to fit into a non-metal song. For the first time, though (and I feel silly for realizing this just now!), I discovered that Hydrogen has a quick way to randomize velocities for a series of hits, that I abused to make it more "dynamic".
  • One of the areas where I experimented more was acoustic guitars. I ranted in the Scheherazade thread about how the pickup I bought pretty much sucked... I bought another one (Thomann's TrueType SH-20) which was better, but still not "good". Remembering past exchanges with @milo on the matter, I started recording using a mic instead, which did indeed give better results. I was still not very satisfied, though, so after chatting with a friend, he suggested actually recording both at the same time, since they really capture different things. That did indeed make them sound much better I think! It was a bit of a challenge to figure out how to get Jack to capture two different devices, until I found zita-a2j which solved it very easily!
  • I played more with the bass as well. Another friend suggested ways to make it pop, that I tried to follow. More precisely, I recorded it once, and then copied the result to two different tracks: I then applied different effects to them all, i.e., leaving one as it is, cutting some frequences on the other, and only keeping mids and adding distortion to them on the last. Not sure the bass sounds convincing, but I think it definitely sounds better than in my previous attempts.
  • Electric guitars are the usual mix of Rakarrack and Guitarix. I added a solo again, more melodic this time: it was supposed to be more complex at the end, but I just couldn't play it, so I had strings do the heavy lifting for me :lol: . I recently bought my very first Telecaster (Squier of course, I'm poor :mrgreen: ), and you can actually hear it here: it's the Telecaster pretty much for all electric guitars in the second part (except for the solo, that I had recorded already).
  • Obviously I abused @Michael Willis' excellent Dragonfly Reverb again.
Hope you'll enjoy it, feedback welcome as usual!
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Re: Out of the Void

Post by milo »

Bravo, Lorenzo! Another epic piece.

This has a very nice, slow progression throughout the piece. Sort of like Ravel's Bolero. It even has the rather abrupt ending. I like how you allow the volume to build over time, rather than try to squeeze it all together with a compressor/limiter combo. This will make the beginning of the track harder to appreciate in a loud environment, like in a car, but it will give a very satisfying experience in a dedicated listening space.

Your acoustic tones are pretty good in this one, I think. (But I don't get full frequency spectrum out of my speakers here at the office, so I'll have to listen in my studio later.) I usually use 2 mics on my acoustic, one from above and one from below, into a stereo track. The mics are also two different makes and models, so they pick up different frequencies from the instrument. This fills the stereo space with a nice, rich, acoustic texture. Someday I will upgrade my acoustic guitar, but for now I'm pretty happy with the tones I can record from it.

Your solo sounds pretty solid to me.

Yay! Go Telecasters! Somehow they got the reputation for being only good for country/western music, but I think they are good for about anything you need a solid body tone for. They don't have the humbucking drive of a Les Paul, it's true, but their native tone is so clean that you can take it in any direction.

Progressive rock? Yeah, I'm not sure either. Maybe Art Rock? But those are almost the same thing.
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Re: Out of the Void

Post by Basslint »

Very nice! Yes, I think it qualifies as progressive rock. It sounds a bit like the instrumentals you can find on prog or doom metal albums.
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Re: Out of the Void

Post by Rainmak3r »

milo wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:57 pm Bravo, Lorenzo! Another epic piece.
Thanks as usual for your kind words!
milo wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:57 pmThis has a very nice, slow progression throughout the piece. Sort of like Ravel's Bolero. It even has the rather abrupt ending. I like how you allow the volume to build over time, rather than try to squeeze it all together with a compressor/limiter combo. This will make the beginning of the track harder to appreciate in a loud environment, like in a car, but it will give a very satisfying experience in a dedicated listening space.
That's also because I still haven't learned how to keep levels consistent for 5 minutes straight :mrgreen:
milo wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:57 pmYour acoustic tones are pretty good in this one, I think. (But I don't get full frequency spectrum out of my speakers here at the office, so I'll have to listen in my studio later.) I usually use 2 mics on my acoustic, one from above and one from below, into a stereo track. The mics are also two different makes and models, so they pick up different frequencies from the instrument. This fills the stereo space with a nice, rich, acoustic texture. Someday I will upgrade my acoustic guitar, but for now I'm pretty happy with the tones I can record from it.
That does make a lot of sense. Unfortunately I only have one mic, the vocal condenser mic I struggled with in the past, so that's not something I can try anytime soon I'm afraid. Since it's a microphone mostly conceived for voice, I'm pretty sure it can't really capture things right. While one of the other pieces I'm working on does involve more acoustic guitars than usual, I don't use them very often, so for the time being I don't think I'll invest in getting more/better mics (even though it's something I'd like to investigate sooner or later).
milo wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:57 pmYour solo sounds pretty solid to me.
Thanks! It's fun trying to come up with something that makes sense and fits, and I've found that taking a more melodic approach helps greatly. At the very least, it helps setting a path like A->B->C: things can happen in between, but at least you know where you're going.
milo wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:57 pmYay! Go Telecasters! Somehow they got the reputation for being only good for country/western music, but I think they are good for about anything you need a solid body tone for. They don't have the humbucking drive of a Les Paul, it's true, but their native tone is so clean that you can take it in any direction.
I have to admit I've never been a huge fan (more of a Stratocaster guy myself), but I stumbled upon one that looked really great and was quite affordable too, so I decided to just go with it! And I have to say I'm really happy I did: it's a real pleasure to play, and it has sounds none of my other guitars have. I'll definitely have to use it more in the future: very likely not for the more metal-oriented parts, but for anything else (like what I did here) it's definitely a fit.
milo wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:57 pmProgressive rock? Yeah, I'm not sure either. Maybe Art Rock? But those are almost the same thing.
Yeah, finding the right label is always hard. Not that I think my stuff is particularly clever or original, but I struggle myself to define most of it, since it's usually a weird melting pot of different things. I'm glad you enjoyed it, and thanks again for the precious feedback!
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Re: Out of the Void

Post by Rainmak3r »

Basslint wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:55 pm Very nice! Yes, I think it qualifies as progressive rock. It sounds a bit like the instrumentals you can find on prog or doom metal albums.
Grazie! :D I'm glad you liked it! I didn't think it could be considered doom, even though it's a genre I like a lot and the first part is indeed dark enough. Actually, I think a good deal of inspiration for the first part at the time came from the Diabolique movie soundtrack, by Randy Edelman: I always found that haunting and fascinating in its darkness. The airy refrain always felt more like those beautiful themes progressive rock bands could come up with, in between those crazy tempos.
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Re: Out of the Void

Post by folderol »

I really like this. A very complex work - no wonder it took a long to to complete!
The Yoshimi guy {apparently now an 'elderly'}
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Re: Out of the Void

Post by Rainmak3r »

folderol wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:47 pm I really like this. A very complex work - no wonder it took a long to to complete!
Thanks for listening, and glad you liked it!
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Re: Out of the Void

Post by GMaq »

Hi Rainmak3r!

This sounds gorgeous! The guitars and piano sound particularly so. Your compositions are so ambitious, it's very inspiring! I would agree it leans pretty prawggy and it's a great arrangement and mix. I also liked the old skool analog synthy strings in the middle section. One observation is the drums are nicely mixed this time and can be heard quite well, however curiously the snare drum has no 'body'..? On a slow piece like this I'd like to feel some of that snare in my ribs and have some deep tone to it..

All in all a terrific piece to be proud of!

PS

+1 for telecasters... I have 3 of them in various Frankenstein incarnations (1 standard and 2 baritones) mine have Gibson mini-humbuckers in the neck position to get some of both worlds, they are truly extremely versatile guitars regardless of genre. Snappy country twang all the way to super round jazzy goodness and all points in between.. :D
Last edited by GMaq on Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Out of the Void

Post by Rainmak3r »

GMaq wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:14 pm Hi Rainmak3r!

This sound gorgeous! The guitars and piano sound particularly so. Your compositions are so ambitious, it's very inspiring! I would agree it leans pretty prawggy and it's a great arrangement and mix. I also liked the old skool analog synthy strings in the middle section. One observation is the drums are nicely mixed this time and can be heard quite well, however curiously the snare drum has no 'body'..? On a slow piece like this I'd like to feel some of that snare in my ribs and have some deep tone to it..
Thanks for the kind words, they're really appreciated!

I'm glad drums got a bit better this time, I tried paying more attention to them. I agree the snare is a bit underwhelming. I feel this is a bit how the Muldjord kit was recorded as well, which is very much a metal kit I'm "abusing" in a lot of different contexts: for quiet parts for instance I don't use the plain snare, but the snare roll mostly. There's an interesting comment on the drumgizmo page for the kit:

"This kit has some phasing issues between snare top and snare bottom, so remember to phase reverse the bottom snare channel, otherwise the snaredrum will sound really shallow."

I guess this is also what may be happening here? The nice thing about drumgizmo is that you can apply different effects on different channels (each typically associated with a drum "part"), which should give you much more control on the mixing. It's something I haven't really been doing so far, though, and probably should... Thanks for the feedback, it's helpful!
GMaq wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:14 pm All in all a terrific piece to be proud of!
Thanks!
GMaq wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:14 pm PS

+1 for telecasters... I have 3 of them in various Frankenstein incarnations (1 standard and 2 baritones) mine have Gibson mini-humbuckers in the neck position to get some of both worlds, they are truly extremely versatile guitars regardless of genre. Snappy country twang all the way to super round jazzy goodness and all points in between.. :D
Yeah, I've seen you rock one often in the videos you shared, and they did always pack a punch! :mrgreen: I'll try to honour mine as well!
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