Conflict (Metal Track)

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Tenaba
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Conflict (Metal Track)

Post by Tenaba »

Hello everyone, I have a new metal song. You can listen to and download it on bandcamp here:
https://royalgloom.bandcamp.com/track/conflict

It sounds sort of like a boss theme from a video game, especially the chorus; so I decided to call it "Conflict".

I recorded this around a year ago, but never released it because I was disappointed with the mix quality. I changed some things recently, so hopefully it's alright now. I figure I'll learn to mix faster if instead of endlessly tweaking one song, I release things to start working on new material.

This is kind of new for me, as I didn't have any reference tracks for "metal with lots of synths in it". So any feedback would be appreciated! Thanks.
Last edited by Tenaba on Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Conflict (Metal Track)

Post by tavasti »

Nice work!

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Re: Conflict (Metal Track)

Post by Rainmak3r »

crownbird wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:09 pm Hello everyone, I have a new metal song. You can listen to and download it on bandcamp here:
https://royalgloom.bandcamp.com/track/conflict

It sounds sort of like a boss theme from a video game, especially the chorus; so I decided to call it "Conflict".

I recorded this around a year ago, but never released it because I was disappointed with the mix quality. I changed some things recently, so hopefully it's alright now. I figure I'll learn to mix faster if instead of endlessly tweaking one song, I release things to start working on new material.

This is kind of new for me, as I didn't have any reference tracks for "metal with lots of synths in it". So any feedback would be appreciated! Thanks.
It does remind me a bit of some of those Japanese videogames soundtrack! I do like the song, but I'm not a fan of the distortion you chose for the guitar, though, which seems a bit too "tame" for my taste... For metal and synths together there's actually a whole subgenre, usually called (in general, as I believe it's actually an umbrella term for a more heterogeneous category) "Industrial metal", where guitars are typically much heavier than that, probably to mark a clear distinction between the metal and electronic souls. Just dumping a couple of examples here in case it helps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEetp7S39Co
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X41-jB_pdA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_OHJxN9C1Y

Keep up the good work, and looking forward to hear more!
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Re: Conflict (Metal Track)

Post by oscillator »

I love this, @crownbird !

I am a big fan of the dual guitar/synth melodies, making it large and powerful! The song is good too!

Is it real drums?

Reminds me of Samael!

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Re: Conflict (Metal Track)

Post by Tenaba »

Rainmak3r wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:07 am
crownbird wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:09 pm Hello everyone, I have a new metal song. You can listen to and download it on bandcamp here:
https://royalgloom.bandcamp.com/track/conflict

It sounds sort of like a boss theme from a video game, especially the chorus; so I decided to call it "Conflict".

I recorded this around a year ago, but never released it because I was disappointed with the mix quality. I changed some things recently, so hopefully it's alright now. I figure I'll learn to mix faster if instead of endlessly tweaking one song, I release things to start working on new material.

This is kind of new for me, as I didn't have any reference tracks for "metal with lots of synths in it". So any feedback would be appreciated! Thanks.
It does remind me a bit of some of those Japanese videogames soundtrack! I do like the song, but I'm not a fan of the distortion you chose for the guitar, though, which seems a bit too "tame" for my taste... For metal and synths together there's actually a whole subgenre, usually called (in general, as I believe it's actually an umbrella term for a more heterogeneous category) "Industrial metal", where guitars are typically much heavier than that, probably to mark a clear distinction between the metal and electronic souls. Just dumping a couple of examples here in case it helps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEetp7S39Co
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X41-jB_pdA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_OHJxN9C1Y

Keep up the good work, and looking forward to hear more!
Thanks for the advice! Yeah, I was a bit hesitant to up the gain and make the EQ harsher, as on my previously released track I really overdid it. But I suppose it's about finding a balance. For future reference, could you share any quick ideas on what you would do to any/all of the guitar tracks?
oscillator wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:59 pm I love this, @crownbird !

I am a big fan of the dual guitar/synth melodies, making it large and powerful! The song is good too!

Is it real drums?

Reminds me of Samael!
Thanks! The drums were all sampled through hydrogen, using multiple different free sample sets. I did kind of try and swing the timing and velocities a bit (manually) so they don't sound as robotic.
Crashes were from the Open Source Drumkit, though I can't find a working link to that set anymore.
I used Kicks, Snares and Toms from The Metal Kickdrum at http://themetalkickdrum.com/
And all other cymbals from SM Mega Reaper, https://smmdrums.wordpress.com/for-reaper/

I also checked out Samael, I'll have to listen to more!

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Re: Conflict (Metal Track)

Post by Rainmak3r »

crownbird wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:56 pm Thanks for the advice! Yeah, I was a bit hesitant to up the gain and make the EQ harsher, as on my previously released track I really overdid it. But I suppose it's about finding a balance. For future reference, could you share any quick ideas on what you would do to any/all of the guitar tracks?
I actually think it's just the main riff that needs a slightly different approach, since for instance the alternate picking solo that starts ~1m is absolutely fine the way it is, same for the solo at ~2:20, where the semi-distorted sound is spot on I believe (and reminds me a bit of Bravely Default, speaking of Japanese games soundtracks :mrgreen: )

For the heavier part, one approach I use often is to actually record the same thing twice, and then put them one completely on the left, and one completely on the right. It's important to record them twice, and not just copy/paste one, as they need to be slightly different, for the same reason why 2-3 violins playing together sound quite different from a single violin, for instance: the slight differences among them tend to "flatten" each other. I think in the metal world this technique is usually called "stacking", and has a few advantages: first of all, it makes the heavy part much more compact (since again, the two takes flatten each other making it sound smoother), and helps giving it a boost too (since it's two instruments rather than just one). I know some actually record even more layers, but in all my tracks I've always stuck to just two.

Apart from that, there's of course the research for a good sound, and that can take forever... I'm completely inept at that, and usually stick to a sound that I like: for my tracks, I almost always use the "Running Wild /rogues or rogues2" preset in Guitarix, that I feel has a nice kick and is heavy enough, even though there's a Warrior preset that is quite interesting. Of course, if you have pedals or external boxes to work with the guitar signal even better: I used to have a Pod Pro that I loved, a few years ago, until it broke down; I now have a Pod XT and a Pocket Pod, that I rarely use though since I've become more comfortable just tinkering with Guitarix and Rakarrack presets. One thing I noticed with the distortion you used, though, is that it seems maybe a bit too equalized on the basses? or maybe just too "synthetic" (I'm probably wrong, but it feels a bit too dark to me).

Hope this helps and that I'm not actually making things even more confusing! :lol:
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Re: Conflict (Metal Track)

Post by Tenaba »

Rainmak3r wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:29 pm
crownbird wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:56 pm Thanks for the advice! Yeah, I was a bit hesitant to up the gain and make the EQ harsher, as on my previously released track I really overdid it. But I suppose it's about finding a balance. For future reference, could you share any quick ideas on what you would do to any/all of the guitar tracks?
I actually think it's just the main riff that needs a slightly different approach, since for instance the alternate picking solo that starts ~1m is absolutely fine the way it is, same for the solo at ~2:20, where the semi-distorted sound is spot on I believe (and reminds me a bit of Bravely Default, speaking of Japanese games soundtracks :mrgreen: )

For the heavier part, one approach I use often is to actually record the same thing twice, and then put them one completely on the left, and one completely on the right. It's important to record them twice, and not just copy/paste one, as they need to be slightly different, for the same reason why 2-3 violins playing together sound quite different from a single violin, for instance: the slight differences among them tend to "flatten" each other. I think in the metal world this technique is usually called "stacking", and has a few advantages: first of all, it makes the heavy part much more compact (since again, the two takes flatten each other making it sound smoother), and helps giving it a boost too (since it's two instruments rather than just one). I know some actually record even more layers, but in all my tracks I've always stuck to just two.

Apart from that, there's of course the research for a good sound, and that can take forever... I'm completely inept at that, and usually stick to a sound that I like: for my tracks, I almost always use the "Running Wild /rogues or rogues2" preset in Guitarix, that I feel has a nice kick and is heavy enough, even though there's a Warrior preset that is quite interesting. Of course, if you have pedals or external boxes to work with the guitar signal even better: I used to have a Pod Pro that I loved, a few years ago, until it broke down; I now have a Pod XT and a Pocket Pod, that I rarely use though since I've become more comfortable just tinkering with Guitarix and Rakarrack presets. One thing I noticed with the distortion you used, though, is that it seems maybe a bit too equalized on the basses? or maybe just too "synthetic" (I'm probably wrong, but it feels a bit too dark to me).

Hope this helps and that I'm not actually making things even more confusing! :lol:
Okay, I'm glad the leads weren't too bad. I was particularly worried on if the solo was too loud or quiet, so that's good to hear. And yeah, I like a ton of Japanese soundtracks (game or not), but I haven't been able to play as much JRPGs unless I want to start using WINE/Proton more.

As for the rhythms, I did multi-track and hardpan them to create to stereo image. And for the "too equalized on the basses", are you referring to the bass guitar itself? You'd be right, I did give them much more mids so they kind of poke out amidst the guitar. The electric guitars were high-passed quite aggressively to make room for the bass however, so maybe that wasn't necessary.

I also like the Warrior preset you mentioned. It's actually what I influenced my current "general/improv/messing around" tone on, albeit I use much, much less gain (and I turn off the bass-boost, and also cut sub-bass). I'll try out Running Wild / Rogue again, I think I used it years ago but I've since forgotten how it sounds/feels to play with.

Thanks again for the input!

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Re: Conflict (Metal Track)

Post by milo »

crownbird wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:09 pmI recorded this around a year ago, but never released it because I was disappointed with the mix quality. I changed some things recently, so hopefully it's alright now. I figure I'll learn to mix faster if instead of endlessly tweaking one song, I release things to start working on new material.
You are exactly right. The best way to learn is to call it done and move on. Projects build upon one another over time, and you learn something new with every one. You can give yourself permission to revisit an old project when you are compiling and album for release, or something like that.

This is a solid performance. I've never been a metal head, so I'm not sure that I can make a useful comment on the music itself, but I appreciate the skill it takes to perform this. Congratulations on putting it out there.
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Re: Conflict (Metal Track)

Post by GMaq »

Hi!

Also not a metal connoisseur but this is skillfully recorded, performed, programmed and mixed! My only observation is I'd like the drums to be more defined and clear in the mix with more 'upper' stuff like cymbals and other high frequencies represented.

Super tight work!!
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Re: Conflict (Metal Track)

Post by Tenaba »

milo wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:32 pm You are exactly right. The best way to learn is to call it done and move on. Projects build upon one another over time, and you learn something new with every one. You can give yourself permission to revisit an old project when you are compiling and album for release, or something like that.

This is a solid performance. I've never been a metal head, so I'm not sure that I can make a useful comment on the music itself, but I appreciate the skill it takes to perform this. Congratulations on putting it out there.
Thanks! Even this is a product of revisiting something old, and I'm quite certain it sounds better than where I left it previously.
GMaq wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:44 pm Hi!

Also not a metal connoisseur but this is skillfully recorded, performed, programmed and mixed! My only observation is I'd like the drums to be more defined and clear in the mix with more 'upper' stuff like cymbals and other high frequencies represented.

Super tight work!!
That's good to hear. I'm always kind of cautious about throwing in more high frequencies in the mix, as I feel they can add up really quickly, but I'll keep in mind that I could stand to boost the cymbals and such. Thanks for the help!

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Re: Conflict (Metal Track)

Post by Basslint »

Very solid riffing! Even if @Rainmak3r's input is valuable, I'm going to disagree in that I like a lot the guitar tone, I think you nailed the kind of tone you hear in Japanese games!
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Re: Conflict (Metal Track)

Post by jeanette_c »

Hey @crownbird , I love this! It's a killer sound! I do like the guitars a lot. Rather distinct. I think finding your personal balance is even more difficult when you have synths in it.
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Re: Conflict (Metal Track)

Post by turbidh20 »

I like it. I can imagine this as the soundtrack to a classic Quake game :D

I think the drums need boosting in the mix and widen/excite the mix a little. Easier said than done I know! I'm no expert and certainly not with metal. I like your guitar work as well. Good stuff.
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Re: Conflict (Metal Track)

Post by Tenaba »

Basslint wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 3:41 pm Very solid riffing! Even if @Rainmak3r's input is valuable, I'm going to disagree in that I like a lot the guitar tone, I think you nailed the kind of tone you hear in Japanese games!
jeanette_c wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 4:06 pm Hey @crownbird , I love this! It's a killer sound! I do like the guitars a lot. Rather distinct. I think finding your personal balance is even more difficult when you have synths in it.
Thank you both, I'm glad you like the guitar tone and riffs. I'd like to keep the synths in my personal style after this, though it's a bit difficult to find a place for in new material.
turbidh20 wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 4:36 pm I like it. I can imagine this as the soundtrack to a classic Quake game :D

I think the drums need boosting in the mix and widen/excite the mix a little. Easier said than done I know! I'm no expert and certainly not with metal. I like your guitar work as well. Good stuff.
I agree on the drums. Apart from just mixing, I'd probably accentuate a few transitions with harder cymbal hits to excite the mix as you said; there's a few parts where I can see it would help. Thanks very much!

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Re: Conflict (Metal Track)

Post by Noahsark »

This is some nice musical work!

Thanks for posting!!!
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