I'll be back for you (instrumental version)

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Rainmak3r
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Re: I'll be back for you (instrumental version)

Postby Rainmak3r » Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:19 pm

Whoops, I just noticed that I did NOT actually use the YamahaVintageKit as I thought, but a very basic GMKit instead... this may also explain why drums sound so lackluster, apart from mixing. I've played with the RedZeppelin drumkit and it sounds way cooler, I'll have to use that for my next recordings!

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Re: I'll be back for you (instrumental version)

Postby folderol » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:21 am

That's a very impressive performance. Much enjoyed.

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Re: I'll be back for you (instrumental version)

Postby Rainmak3r » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:33 am

folderol wrote:That's a very impressive performance. Much enjoyed.


Thanks, I'm glad you liked it!

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Re: I'll be back for you (instrumental version)

Postby Basslint » Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:56 am

Very good, reminded me of Chuck Schuldiner's (may he rest in peace) more atmospheric moments!

I think you need to improve the mix, re-record the solo (it doesn't need 100% perfect but the faster run doesn't work and I hear two errors at 3:13 and between 3:16 and 3:17), record a real (possibly fretless) bass and perhaps change the drum kit used (DrumGizmo has a nice one for metal).
The community of believers was of one heart and mind, and no one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they had everything in common. [Acts 4:32]

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Re: I'll be back for you (instrumental version)

Postby Rainmak3r » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:47 am

Basslint wrote:Very good, reminded me of Chuck Schuldiner's (may he rest in peace) more atmospheric moments!


Wow thanks, that's a great compliment! He was a skilled songwriter and a great guitarist...

Basslint wrote:I think you need to improve the mix, re-record the solo (it doesn't need 100% perfect but the faster run doesn't work and I hear two errors at 3:13 and between 3:16 and 3:17), record a real (possibly fretless) bass and perhaps change the drum kit used (DrumGizmo has a nice one for metal).


The bass is indeed on my TODO list :lol: I'm planning to buy one soon!

I've started tinkering a bit with the mix, but I'm still not at a point where it's much better...

I did change the drums, though, using the AVL Black Pearl drumkit that's available for Hydrogen, and introducing some "randomizationN on velocity and stuff like that. It sounds much better, but the kicks are still too "hidden", especially when they're faster. For that, I'm pretty sure that I'll have to just improve the mix in general, so that everything is more distinguishable.

On the solo, my feel is that I used the wrong effect for that. It probably just doesn't work that well when you use legatos (which I use a lot). In fact, if I listen to the points you referenced, I can't hear the mistakes (it's the notes I meant to play), but I do sense it's lacking the proper "continuity", and the final run is a perfect example of that. I will indeed have to re-record that, as I don't have the clean take to reamp, and see if using something else will help. Of course, apart from that, there's the issue that I am a much crappier guitarist than Chuck Schuldiner :mrgreen:

Thanks for the feedback!

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Re: I'll be back for you (instrumental version)

Postby Rainmak3r » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:49 am

Oh, side note! I did look into DrumGizmo in the past few weeks, but never managed to find any drumkit to use with it. The application comes with no samples, and apparently it's very hard to find a sample set to use with it. For this reason I've stuck with Hydrogen so far. Do you have any link to the drumkit you mentioned?

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Re: I'll be back for you (instrumental version)

Postby Basslint » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:48 am

Rainmak3r wrote:Oh, side note! I did look into DrumGizmo in the past few weeks, but never managed to find any drumkit to use with it. The application comes with no samples, and apparently it's very hard to find a sample set to use with it. For this reason I've stuck with Hydrogen so far. Do you have any link to the drumkit you mentioned?


They are on the official website, here.

Also, as an advice from a fellow guitarist who also comes from metal (e anche Italiano), consider buying a bass only if:
1) You want to be a producer
and/or
2) You want to use it for demos

Because you are likely not ever going to be great at it right away, it takes time and dedication! I sold my bass for that reason.

If 2) is the case, don't spend a lot of money on a bass! There are decent basses at a mid price range, especially if you buy used, but always keep in mind the sound that you want to achieve. I think a fretless bass would sound best for this kind of instrumental metal, but they are very hard to play, even among pro bass players!
The community of believers was of one heart and mind, and no one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they had everything in common. [Acts 4:32]

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Re: I'll be back for you (instrumental version)

Postby Rainmak3r » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:03 pm

Basslint wrote:
Rainmak3r wrote:Oh, side note! I did look into DrumGizmo in the past few weeks, but never managed to find any drumkit to use with it. The application comes with no samples, and apparently it's very hard to find a sample set to use with it. For this reason I've stuck with Hydrogen so far. Do you have any link to the drumkit you mentioned?


They are on the official website, here.


Turns out I had it confused with drumkv1... the official drumgizmo website does have a lot of samples, thanks! Looks like it's much more complex to use and write for than Hydrogen, though... the tutorial on how to configure it for Ardour is a bit overwhelming. It will take me some time to figure that stuff out, but the MuldjordKit3 kit does sound awesome.

Basslint wrote:Also, as an advice from a fellow guitarist who also comes from metal (e anche Italiano), consider buying a bass only if:
1) You want to be a producer
and/or
2) You want to use it for demos

Because you are likely not ever going to be great at it right away, it takes time and dedication! I sold my bass for that reason.

If 2) is the case, don't spend a lot of money on a bass! There are decent basses at a mid price range, especially if you buy used, but always keep in mind the sound that you want to achieve. I think a fretless bass would sound best for this kind of instrumental metal, but they are very hard to play, even among pro bass players!


Oh yes, I'm most definitely not going to spend more than 100/150€ on it... Most of the times it would be gathering dust anyway :lol:
But I don't think I'd buy a fretless one: as you say, it would be way more difficult to play. Besides, this track is instrumental only because I haven't completely figured out the vocal tracks yet (nor do I have a singer for it, but that's details! :) ), but it's actually supposed to be a "regular" song.

Ciao!

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Re: I'll be back for you (instrumental version)

Postby Basslint » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:24 pm

Rainmak3r wrote:Looks like it's much more complex to use and write for than Hydrogen, though... the tutorial on how to configure it for Ardour is a bit overwhelming. It will take me some time to figure that stuff out, but the MuldjordKit3 kit does sound awesome.


You can program it via Hydrogen, we had a nice post on this forum!

Oh yes, I'm most definitely not going to spend more than 100/150€ on it... Most of the times it would be gathering dust anyway :lol:
But I don't think I'd buy a fretless one: as you say, it would be way more difficult to play. Besides, this track is instrumental only because I haven't completely figured out the vocal tracks yet (nor do I have a singer for it, but that's details! :) ), but it's actually supposed to be a "regular" song.

Ciao!


You can find something decent and used at that price range (probably an Epiphone or Yamaha bass) but it won't magically bump the quality of your track up, especially if you don't practice hard!

Finding a real bassist would probably be for the better. You can use your current track (maybe a bit more polished thanks to Drumgizmo and clearer mixing) as a demo to find people, there is a reason people form bands :lol:

My personal suggestion, as someone who bought a bass thinking he would be the best one-man band ever and he later sold it, would be not to buy one. Now that I also make electronic music and that I would benefit from very basic bass parts I do regret it, however, if you are going to stick to metal, technique and equipment is always going to be an issue.
The community of believers was of one heart and mind, and no one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they had everything in common. [Acts 4:32]

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Re: I'll be back for you (instrumental version)

Postby Rainmak3r » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:45 pm

Basslint wrote:You can program it via Hydrogen, we had a nice post on this forum!


Oh that's great! It still looks like the "hard" part of configuring DrumGizmo in Ardoud will be needed, but maybe the templates will help (I guess only for new projects, though, and not for an existing one, but I'll check).

You can find something decent and used at that price range (probably an Epiphone or Yamaha bass) but it won't magically bump the quality of your track up, especially if you don't practice hard!

Finding a real bassist would probably be for the better. You can use your current track (maybe a bit more polished thanks to Drumgizmo and clearer mixing) as a demo to find people, there is a reason people form bands :lol:

My personal suggestion, as someone who bought a bass thinking he would be the best one-man band ever and he later sold it, would be not to buy one. Now that I also make electronic music and that I would benefit from very basic bass parts I do regret it, however, if you are going to stick to metal, technique and equipment is always going to be an issue.


The alternative to not buy one would be to either keep on using the Bass preset in Rakarrack (which "works" but isn't that great) or maybe use one of these samples with MIDI instead: http://www.flamestudios.org/free/GigaSamples (which sound fine but would never feel "real"). I don't know, for 100€ I think it's worth to get one if not just for the fun of it: besides, every home looks way cooler the more instruments it has!

That said, I agree a real bass player would be much better (so would a real drummer!), but I'm 40 years old and due to my job I have very little time: I'm afraid a band is out of the question! :mrgreen:
I don't really plan to ever play my music live or sell it: it's really just a hobby, and getting some of the music I wrote out there. That's what makes this whole new exerience with Linux tools amazing: it's allowing me to finally play with new exciting stuff in a much more rewarding way, and all by myself in my own time!

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Re: I'll be back for you (instrumental version)

Postby Rainmak3r » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:53 pm

I've just updated the track on SoundCloud with a few changes. Unfortunately I couldn't simply replace it, since that's a feature of the Pro version of SoundCloud, so I had to set that track to Private and upload the new version to a new link:

https://soundcloud.com/lminiero/ill-be-back-for-you

It's basically the same thing, but drums are now done with DrumGizmo (which do sound way better), bass is a bit louder, and the drums in the quiet refrain are a bit more "dynamic" as suggested instead of doing the same thing all over again. I tweaked a few other parts too (e.g., a bit of reverb on guitars), but not much: I still am not familiar enough with mixing to risk touching it more than that. I wanted to re-record the solo too, but couldn't get to it yet, so it's still ugly as it was before...

Thanks to all who provided feedback! I'm in the process of uploading a new track right now, a very short one that on a CD would be meant to be the very first piece and act as an intro to this. I'll open a new post for that, in case you're interested.

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Re: I'll be back for you (instrumental version)

Postby Basslint » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:45 pm

Rainmak3r wrote:I've just updated the track on SoundCloud with a few changes. Unfortunately I couldn't simply replace it, since that's a feature of the Pro version of SoundCloud, so I had to set that track to Private and upload the new version to a new link:

https://soundcloud.com/lminiero/ill-be-back-for-you

It's basically the same thing, but drums are now done with DrumGizmo (which do sound way better), bass is a bit louder, and the drums in the quiet refrain are a bit more "dynamic" as suggested instead of doing the same thing all over again. I tweaked a few other parts too (e.g., a bit of reverb on guitars), but not much: I still am not familiar enough with mixing to risk touching it more than that. I wanted to re-record the solo too, but couldn't get to it yet, so it's still ugly as it was before...

Thanks to all who provided feedback! I'm in the process of uploading a new track right now, a very short one that on a CD would be meant to be the very first piece and act as an intro to this. I'll open a new post for that, in case you're interested.


I already said I like the piece, and the changes are good, but some things I noticed:

Also, are you playing the part at 0:37 on a single coil pickup? It feels a bit thin.

At 1:16, when you play that last ride, it rings for too long. You could simulate a Cymbal choke for a more dramatic effect.

The palm muted passage at 2:11-2:12 is also a bit sloppy. At 2:30, there is an audible mistake.

As for the bass, perhaps you could try boosting the mid range to it and shape the attack to make it sound more like a real bass.
The community of believers was of one heart and mind, and no one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they had everything in common. [Acts 4:32]

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Re: I'll be back for you (instrumental version)

Postby Rainmak3r » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:57 pm

Basslint wrote:I already said I like the piece, and the changes are good, but some things I noticed:

Also, are you playing the part at 0:37 on a single coil pickup? It feels a bit thin.


I honestly can't remember... It was my Fender HSS, and IIRC this part was played between the middle pickup (which is a single coil) and the humbucker at the bridge, but good chances are I'm remembering it wrong.

At 1:16, when you play that last ride, it rings for too long. You could simulate a Cymbal choke for a more dramatic effect.


I'll have to learn how to do that with DrumGizmo, thanks for the tip!

The palm muted passage at 2:11-2:12 is also a bit sloppy. At 2:30, there is an audible mistake.


Yeah, actually all the "bridge" parts (the ones that play on their own) are not that great... you'll hear some are even a bit out of tempo. Sooner or later I'll have to re-record those as well. Hopefully the mistake on one of the sides in the refrain is masqueraded by the other side :mrgreen:

As for the bass, perhaps you could try boosting the mid range to it and shape the attack to make it sound more like a real bass.


Thanks for the suggestion! I'm actually using a bass enhancer from Calf as a plugin, for the bass: I really didn't know boosting the mid might help. For the attack, compressors are still like a mysterious art to me, but I'll have to learn how to use those to my advantage too!

Thanks again for providing more feedback, it's hugely appreciated!

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Re: I'll be back for you (instrumental version)

Postby Basslint » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:26 pm

Rainmak3r wrote:I honestly can't remember... It was my Fender HSS, and IIRC this part was played between the middle pickup (which is a single coil) and the humbucker at the bridge, but good chances are I'm remembering it wrong.


IIRC in the other thread you said you have an Ibanez Destroyer. If I were you, I would play everything on that one, but then I am an humbucker fanboy :lol: (even if I do have a single coil pickup and like it a lot!)

I'll have to learn how to do that with DrumGizmo, thanks for the tip!


If you are programming everything via Hydrogen, you can do this:

Select the Ride and set the Mute Group to a one that is never used by other kit pieces, like Mute group no. 13.

Select Instruments > Add instrument from the menu bar. It will add a dummy instrument called "New Instrument"

Select the dummy instrument you just created and set the Mute Group to the same as the Ride (in this example, 13)

Now put a note on the dummy instrument where you want the stop to be. As soon as the dummy instrument is hit, it won't make any sound but the ride will stop.

Thanks for the suggestion! I'm actually using a bass enhancer from Calf as a plugin, for the bass: I really didn't know boosting the mid might help. For the attack, compressors are still like a mysterious art to me, but I'll have to learn how to use those to my advantage too!


The bass enhancer is OK, but keep in mind that this tip is to make the guitar sound more like an electric bass, not to enhance your mix. The boost could actually clash with something - be careful!

You could also try an octaver effect from Guitarix or Rakarrack and balance carefully the Dry/Wet mix.

Thanks again for providing more feedback, it's hugely appreciated!


Figurati!
The community of believers was of one heart and mind, and no one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they had everything in common. [Acts 4:32]

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Re: I'll be back for you (instrumental version)

Postby GMaq » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:24 pm

Hi,

Great work for a first project, rhythmically tight and nice guitar sounds and melodies! Programmed drums are really tough to pull off and on my first listen I think the drums need the most work to give better dynamics and expression, but the best thing about sequenced drums is you can always drop in a new version.. :wink:

If this is a neophyte effort you have much promise and I'll look forward to what's coming next!


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