Südwestlicht: Der Sprung

[jonetsu]

I must underline that what I wrote above is:

"it does not jump at the listener. It does not mean loudness, but more bite. "

In pop music one must grab the attention. One cheap way of doing this is by maximizing volume at the price of dynamics. It's 'cheap' because it sacrifices dynamics as everyone knows. It still requires quite an effort and a few details to watch to achieve technically in a 'nice' way. The other way is by mixing. An EQ boost can be compensated perhaps by pulling back a little using compression and/or lowering a tad the overall volume, depends. When the bite, the attention grabbing is there at lower volume, by means of arrangements, sound choices and mixing, then it becomes some kind of an icing on the cake at the mastering stage to raise the volume just a little bit, nicely, since the bite is already present. The arrangement part plays a big role in terms of catching the attention.

For people interested, see the analysis of pop songs made by Friedemann Findeisen on youtube: The Artist Series.

This is a song of his:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnUy-5ANoAk

Cheers.

[bluebell]

One thing I would say to you and many others who program drums (even with my kits)... Enough with the splash cymbal already!!!

To me a dead giveaway of whether drums are real (or an emulation of a real drummer) is the use of the splash cymbal more than once during a song (perhaps more than once during an album). Most real drummers may use a splash to punctuate a drum solo performance or perhaps once or twice in a certain song within a whole night...

I've received more than one opinion that splash cymbals shouldn't be used as I use them. Some recommended not to use them at all. But ... I like them. I am always fascinated when real drummers use them, e.g. Gavin Harrison (Porcupine Tree).

I try to understand what bothers those listeners (always musicians). Maybe it's some kind of thinking what should it sound like in these days. If it sounds different then it's not as good as it could be. Some complained about the "80's" drum sounds, I think they don't like the snare's sound. But let's look back:

- In the 50's and 60's it was "forbidden" to hear the kick drum (and the kick drum was more of a boooooommmmm-drum)
- In the 80's extremely high pitched snares were en vogue
- Now as metal got mainstream it's "forbidden" to hear the snare's metal springs (I don't know the english word, in German "Teppich"), cymbals should be buried in clouds and mist and sound far away. Surely a loud splash without much reverb is the antichrist then.
- Drums got more aggressive each year, some kick drums have more high freqs that a snare drum and are dominating the sound in some songs

I am willing to adapt modern influences up to a specific limit. Everyone is changing when years go by. I make my mixes decently loud but avoid compressor's pumping and eating too much impulses. In early stages of a mix there is always the pitfall of making cymbals too loud. That should be fixed. But I am a child of the late 70's and early 80's. I don't try to be a copy of young musicians and mixing/mastering engineers. My stuff won't sound "modern", it's a very personal thing.

[bluebell]

song has now -10.8 LUFS (that should be a sane maximum for non-hiphop, non-dubstep)

Sorry, I may be old-fashioned, but for my taste that is way over the top already. I don't agree with others about louder=better, in fact I think that is just a fad which hopefully passes sooner than later.

It's always a dance on the volcano. I don't try to compete with most of the mastering engineers but try to keep my songs at a given level (doesn't always work).

[jonetsu]

- In the 50's and 60's it was "forbidden" to hear the kick drum (and the kick drum was more of a boooooommmmm-drum)
- In the 80's extremely high pitched snares were en vogue
- Now as metal got mainstream it's "forbidden" to hear the snare's metal springs (I don't know the english word, in German "Teppich"), cymbals should be buried in clouds and mist and sound far away. Surely a loud splash without much reverb is the antichrist then.
- Drums got more aggressive each year, some kick drums have more high freqs that a snare drum and are dominating the sound in some songs

I do not follow trends. Never did, never will. Listen to the piece(s) in the signature below. But the chemistry is interesting.

One example: we all take for granted the violinist that executes with passion a vibrato. That's a violinist. Passion and vibrato. How can it be otherwise ? Well, it was very much otherwise before. The vibrato was a sign of a violinist that cannot find the right note right away. But it became popular because of modern technology and early recordings in which there was one mic with a bunch of musicians around it. The violin player had to do something special to cut through the mix, hence the vibrato became popular and today it is associated with a passionate expression. "How Music Works" - David Byrne.

This to say that what makes up a scene is that, make up.

[bluebell]

One example: we all take for granted the violinist that executes with passion a vibrato. That's a violinist. Passion and vibrato. How can it be otherwise ? Well, it was very much otherwise before. The vibrato was a sign of a violinist that cannot find the right note right away. But it became popular because of modern technology and early recordings in which there was one mic with a bunch of musicians around it. The violin player had to do something special to cut through the mix, hence the vibrato became popular and today it is associated with a passionate expression. "How Music Works" - David Byrne.

This to say that what makes up a scene is that, make up.

I remember the 2 voice choruses/verses from the B52's. Impressive because without vibrato. Both singers had to be perfectly in tune. It's a challenge to sing without vibrato. I had many discussions where I claimed that most opera singers are not the best singers of the world just because they sing always with vibrato and always with the same timbre. It's much more challenging to sound good without vibrato and to have a broad spectrum between whispering and shouting. Well - usually I get stoned, burnt or similar.

I should make a song with the roles of snare and kick flipped, just for the fun of it.

[psyocean]

High quality. Good listening. Remembered Rammstain

[bluebell]

I am beginning to rethink the cymbals: those cool guys don't have any splash cymbals

[jonetsu]

These guys are from Österreich isn't it ?

[bluebell]

Wünderbar!!
Sounds very very good. Can be played on radio right away.

In my ears i have one minor point. The rhythm guitar sounds to "stomped" to me within the rest. Could be some clearer to even make this song sound better than it already is. "Could be" ... not neccesairy at all!! Perhaps i'm wining to much.

I made the guitars in the chorus a bit brighter and removed some splash Cymbals

[bluebell]

I made the guitars in the chorus a bit brighter and removed some splash Cymbals

And? Better? Glad you did?

I like them a bit brighter. Thanks for your suggestion.

[GMaq]

I made the guitars in the chorus a bit brighter and removed some splash Cymbals

Thank you! *tips hat

[bluebell]

No thanks. Your welcome. Just said what i heard.
Did you replace it in the startingpost so i can hear the new version too? I'm curious.

Yes, the song has been replaced.

[bluebell]

I made the guitars in the chorus a bit brighter and removed some splash Cymbals

Thank you! *tips hat

Only some (where they were played additionally to crash cymbals), not all

[jonetsu]

Eine Frage: how do you embed pictures in the audio file ?

BTW, regarding "Der Sprung" it should play nice on good monitors and not sound like a radio broadcast. I tried it on Yamaha HS5 + HS8 subwoofer at good blast volume and there's no bottom. I'd say tongue-in-cheek that taking an example on Die Ärzte might not be the best regarding low end response

Cheers.

[bluebell]

Eine Frage: how do you embed pictures in the audio file ?

BTW, regarding "Der Sprung" it should play nice on good monitors and not sound like a radio broadcast. I tried it on Yamaha HS5 + HS8 subwoofer at good blast volume and there's no bottom. I'd say tongue-in-cheek that taking an example on Die Ärzte might not be the best regarding low end response

Cheers.

You can add pictures for example with easytag.

Getting the bass to work on every equipment is a great art. When I hear my mixes on an iphone with stock earplugs there's way too much bass. You say it's not enough on your HS5. It's great on my KH120 + KH805 and on my HiFi speakers KEF Q300 and Q500.

Standing waves (room modes) are always your enemy.