Why'd They Educate Ya?

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Noahsark
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Why'd They Educate Ya?

Post by Noahsark »

Here is the latest song from Noah's Ark and The New Ja'dahgweh

Why'd They Educate Ya? (Full Band)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJyCkC1-Gv8

jeanette_c
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Re: Why'd They Educate Ya?

Post by jeanette_c »

Hi @Noahsark , this is a solid piece of music. Did you also record it live with the complete band? It's all played with very good timing.
I think the song would benefit from a few tweaks to the mix. The guitar and bass in particular appear to overlap in frequencies a lot. Also, which is normal with distortion, the guitars transients sound rather weak. Did you record a DI signal as well, that could usually put to very good use. Also more drastic EQ'ing and a lowcut on the guitars might sepearte them better. If there's more than one guitar, I wasn't sure until the end, panning would open up the sound and uncrowd the centre.
All this can, of course, only work if you have enough tracks of the song.
Again: I think it's well played! I like the energy and timing of the vocalist(s).
Best wishes, Jeanette
--
distro: ArchLinux, DAW: Nama, MIDI sequencer: Midish
All my latest music on https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rf ... 7jhC1Jnv7g
Albums, patches and Csound on http://juliencoder.de

jonetsu
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Re: Why'd They Educate Ya?

Post by jonetsu »

Noahsark wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 6:48 am
Here is the latest song from Noah's Ark and The New Ja'dahgweh

Why'd They Educate Ya? (Full Band)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJyCkC1-Gv8
Again, 100% good feelings. Not putting my mixer hat here as feeling is way above that.

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Noahsark
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Re: Why'd They Educate Ya?

Post by Noahsark »

Thank you Jonetsu!

Feel free to put your mixing hat on if you like because I am open to learning about what I can improve on.

Thank you as well Jeanette for taking the time to listen and to comment.
jeanette_c wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:26 am
Did you also record it live with the complete band?
I will take that as a complement, because no, I didn't record it with a live band. All of the tracks are parts I played.
There are 2 distorted guitars that I played through a small Orange practice amp, plus the lead guitar at the beginning.
Then I used Drum Gizmo for the drums using the DRSKit, I played the basic beat without quantization on my midi keyboard pads, then went back and added in the drum rolls and hi-hats. I tweaked the velocity of the hi-hats to give it a real players feel.
Then there are 3 vocal tracks.
For the bass I used Amsynth - one track for a clean bass and then I took that patch and tweaked it to distort it and then did another track with that sound. it could be that distorted bass track that you here overlapping in the guitar frequencies.
jeanette_c wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:26 am
Did you record a DI signal as well, that could usually put to very good use.


No - I didn't, what is a DI signal?
jeanette_c wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:26 am
Also more drastic EQ'ing and a lowcut on the guitars might sepearte them better.
Thanks for the tip and reminder - I forgot about doing any EQing or compression on the overall song. I reverted to my old days of recording when I had a 6 track tape machine. I never used the patch bay on it because I didn't have any knowledge about using it. So when I would record, I would just get the sound I wanted and lay it down - mixing was simply just getting the levels right.

I still have alot to learn since recording using a computer and with linux is all new to me...

jeanette_c
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Re: Why'd They Educate Ya?

Post by jeanette_c »

Noahsark wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 1:47 am
...
There are 2 distorted guitars that I played through a small Orange practice amp, plus the lead guitar at the beginning.

Did you pan those two guitars? That is usually one good place to separate bass and guitars a bit. Also to "unmix" the two guitars. The whole song sounded very centre heavy.
Then I used Drum Gizmo for the drums using the DRSKit,
...
Drum Gizmo is great. It gives you a lot of freedom while mixing, but it also gives you all the complexity while mixing.
Then there are 3 vocal tracks.
The vocals sound quite clean. It is probably already a question of taste rather than technique, but I would have liked them to be a little louder. With your rather precise singing, you should also get away with spreading them out a little more in the stereo panorama.

For the bass I used Amsynth - one track for a clean bass and then I took that patch and tweaked it to distort it and then did another track with that sound. it could be that distorted bass track that you here overlapping in the guitar frequencies.
The distorted part would be the best candidate. :)
jeanette_c wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:26 am
Did you record a DI signal as well, that could usually put to very good use.


No - I didn't, what is a DI signal?
It's a direct signal from the amp. It is not distorted. There are special DI boxes, but if your amp has something like a clean line-out this would do. You could try other ways, like playing your guitar directly into your computer, record it and also pass it out to the amp and record that with a microphone. In synthesis you did that with the bass.
I think you can work around that a little bit, by copying guitar tracks and experimenting with transient designer plugins (LADSPA transient mangler), very hard compression, even some gating. The idea is to get a distinct transient, plucking sound of the string to mark the beginnings of notes. This can be softly mixed in with the distorted guitar sound.
Even with that, I would still try to cut out bass frequencies with a highpass filter and attack the guitar with more EQ. In combination with EQ'ing on the bass, maybe even lowpass filtering the clean bass in addition, you should be able to clean up that low trebble area. I like the song and I really feel that it would deserve - at least - some experimentation.
And I don't envy you that job. Working with so many live and living instruments is not without challenges. :)
--
distro: ArchLinux, DAW: Nama, MIDI sequencer: Midish
All my latest music on https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rf ... 7jhC1Jnv7g
Albums, patches and Csound on http://juliencoder.de

jonetsu
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Re: Why'd They Educate Ya?

Post by jonetsu »

Noahsark wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 1:47 am
Feel free to put your mixing hat on if you like because I am open to learning about what I can improve on.
This one here shows the cleanliness of distortion when every sound is 'occupying' (in quotes because many of the clips shown below are about Palestine/Middle East) its place in the mix.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnAgc1kgvLc

As you know there's a difference between learning (from) tricks and real learning where one's involved very much in the learning process, as in the school years. Perhaps a good trap is to try to learn from tricks, trying to build a picture from snippets. When there's nothing else one has to do with that, although what helped me a lot, a whole lot, is mixing/mastering engineer Michael White (Whitney Houston, David Bowie, David Byrne, James Taylor, Jimi Hendrix tribute, etc...) as he takes the full time required to actually teach and moreover share his dedication and passion for the art of mixing.

There are no pictures or footage of Michael White around except for this Presonus ad as far as I can tell. People like to see faces so here he is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbF4kNW0aCk

Mike has a lot of videos on youtube, plus he is offering classes (which I've followed). No tricks are quickly given as solution. It's about learning.

A basic concept, the 3D sound field:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf8iu2_BviY

His series on Fundamentals of Mixing is not only free, but excellent. He also has paid courses, but his free material are no sales pitch of any kind for his paid courses. This guy is actually giving. One has to do the homework though.

Other examples:

"Choosing a Reverb"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBaq3_GDAJg

"Compression is About Perception Not Suppression"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmjMa3Dn1Bo

"How to Anchor the Bass in a Mix"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOO8zvsadAA

Thanks for the "Disposable Heroes Of Hiphoprisy" link in the other thread.

ChuggnBlues
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Re: Why'd They Educate Ya?

Post by ChuggnBlues »

I really like the sound! I think it sounds really good and has a raw feel to it. Perhaps listen to what the others are saying in regards to mixing the guitar/bass frequencies (I really don't know much about mixing to be of any help there), but I wouldn't touch it much more than that - it has a cool older/garage kind of tone IMO. Also, great lyrics I like the theme.

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Noahsark
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Re: Why'd They Educate Ya?

Post by Noahsark »

ChuggnBlues wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 4:39 am
I really like the sound! I think it sounds really good and has a raw feel to it.it has a cool older/garage kind of tone IMO. Also, great lyrics I like the theme.
Thank you ChuggnBlues - I appreciate it!

Most of the bands I was involved in, in my younger years were garage type bands. Back then we were doing a lot of metal covers Black Sabbath, Led Zepplin and Metalica. I do lean towards a raw , natural type of sound; in a way I feel that the edginess and uncleanliness in a recording is part of the art of recording as much as getting it clean and distinct. Mixing and mastering are arts unto itself and it think it becomes even a harder task for musician to do themselves to their own music and why it has always been something engineers did - if only to brink another ear and perspective to the music in the final production of it, let alone the talent and knowledge that is needed for the skill.
jeanette_c wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:02 am
Did you pan those two guitars?
No I didn't pan the two guitars - I would think to do so if they were the same parts but they were both different, even than it is something to experiment with and see what happens.

Thank you both, Jeanette and Jonetsu for taking the time to teach me and give me ideas on mixing. I took some notes down from your post and when I get around to it I am going to get into looking into those links, learning and experimenting with the ideas you both presented here.

Thank you again, I appreciate your help.

jonetsu
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Re: Why'd They Educate Ya?

Post by jonetsu »

Noahsark wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 2:06 pm
I do lean towards a raw , natural type of sound; in a way I feel that the edginess and uncleanliness in a recording is part of the art of recording as much as getting it clean and distinct.
Sadly people are trying to add it back to their recordings using various devices.

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GMaq
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Re: Why'd They Educate Ya?

Post by GMaq »

Hi!

Great song! Functional Protest Garage Rock (in a good way!)!!

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Noahsark
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Re: Why'd They Educate Ya?

Post by Noahsark »

GMaq wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 5:28 pm
Great song! Functional Protest Garage Rock (in a good way!)!!
Thank you Glen! I appreciate you taking the time to listen and comment!

And thank you for all the work that you do in compiling AVLinux, it is truly is a great audio distribution!

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