For jam-track makers

Beyond just audio!

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fretski
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For jam-track makers

Post by fretski »

I've been tinkering with ideas, reference the learning/practicing of guitar chords. I really dig some of the jam-tracks i find on the net but would like to see a more effortless approach, effortless on the client side, not the creation side :D :D :D

https://tinyurl.com/y2saqhb6

(it's a huge file so it won't be there for ever)

Just an idea, I've tried different anticipatory/preview methods and have come to the conclusion that a smooth scroll is beyond any doubt the very best approach, albeit hitting the reticle is easier said than done...
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Re: For jam-track makers

Post by D-Tuned »

AstridWilma wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:36 am That's amazing.Take the baby steps. You will be there. Consider doing online tutors for the complicated chords.
Thanks but what's amazing? I pulled the video a while back, not wanting to infringe any copyright and also because of file size (sorry, I cannot use the originally posting 'fretski' account for some reason so made me a new one).

I've made about 30 others since, now using Sonic-Visualizer which is very easy to incorporate with or without chord diagrams. With this method the cord diagrams can also be alternated on/off, to force recall. SV unfortunately sometimes calls the wrong chord but it's a great tool! I can link some others if you wanna explore the method to make your own jam-tracks. The other method with rosegarden is neat too but is A LOT OF WORK and I got it from the devs that a scrolling show is not likely to replace the paging one whereas SV offers both!

As for the chords, my age and fingers dictate the limits: anything spanning over 4 frets is definitely out, or any indirect string and fret # relationship in the diagram :-)
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Re: For jam-track makers

Post by Fmajor7add9 »

also curious of your results using Sonic-Visualizer, would be nice if you could share some screenshots or gifs or something like that
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Re: For jam-track makers

Post by D-Tuned »

Fmajor7add9 wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:51 pm also curious of your results using Sonic-Visualizer, would be nice if you could share some screenshots or gifs or something like that
Only by special request for a short time due to file size, maybe a couple of days?

with rosegarden (etc): https://tinyurl.com/cttmxz2j
with sonic-vis (etc): https://tinyurl.com/yjct3f9b

my 2 cents is that there are at least 2 necessary levels of jam tracks:
one for gurus where you 'maybe mention the key', one for beginners
which is my level. At this last level diagrams, timing pips, anything that
can help me along including and last but not least ANTICIPABILITY
are the _key_ (pun intended) in what I also want to be dynamic
cheatsheets. So this is what MY hacks try to give me. I'm not plugging
Nick Neblo, I just happen to really like his tracks.

notes: my guitar its DGCFAD and the chords are for MY fingers.
the triad root is red, 3rd is black, 5th is gold, same with a white center
are extras of same. A black tail may show where the note came from
to be what it is. Notes that 'make' a chord like an added 7th are
green. I tinkered around with these to get as small as possible and
still be readable printed, I make all rescaling with NO dithering or
feathering as those just screw things up. The fret number is usually
the highest one, the chord name may show the root note fret number,
the greenish tint cage is the 'capo' fret number for reference (I don't
use capos) ...and everything is a draft copy changing all the time.
Any other questions I'll more than happy to adress, after all, I couldn't
count the number of times I got help here on LinuxMusicians :D
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Re: For jam-track makers

Post by merlyn »

Your jam tracks are looking good. You may be aware of this already but in the first example the notation doesn't correspond to the chord voicing. For example the first chord is voiced R 5 R 3 5 according to the chord diagram but the notation shows R 3 5 on the treble clef.
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Re: For jam-track makers

Post by D-Tuned »

merlyn wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:01 am Your jam tracks are looking good. You may be aware of this already but in the first example the notation doesn't correspond to the chord voicing. For example the first chord is voiced R 5 R 3 5 according to the chord diagram but the notation shows R 3 5 on the treble clef.
The reason for that is that I had to back-engineer a primitive midi file in order to get a lilypond scroll in kdenlive.. and I'm just a capital letter DEV/NULL at writing midi files. Also, the voicings may vary over time but the scrolling staff certainly will not, that's how much work it represents. I just googled up some reasonably looking chord notations and went with them.

As a learning tool strictly for myself it can be sloppy :)

I would love to see the rosegarden devs come up with scrolling but I understand that too much is already lockwired into it to change. For jam-tracks it would be useful to include drum, base, chord and arpegio staves as well as close-ups of the fingework actually being played but I think we'll have to wait a looooooong time for that............ :(

With the about 40 that I've made, at least a couple in every key, I expect to make headway toward some feel and familiarity with the keys-ether so to speak, that being the original objective.
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Re: For jam-track makers

Post by merlyn »

The first backing track sounds like it was influenced by Creep by Radiohead. I've notated the chord voicings as they appear in the chord diagrams. I used Musescore and it will produce tab for a drop tuned guitar if you set it up that way. You can have a traditional font :

Image

Or the perhaps friendlier looking jazz font :

Image

The guitar is technically a transposing instrument -- the notes sound one octave lower than written. That is why there is a small '8' on the bottom of the treble clef.
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Re: For jam-track makers

Post by D-Tuned »

merlyn wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:57 pm The first backing track sounds like it was influenced by Creep by Radiohead.
That's good to know, IF I can get to a midi file THAT way; otherwise, I mean like everything is influenced by something or other. Most jam-track makers don't offer a midi file, I guess they don't want to make abuse of their work any easier.
I've notated the chord voicings as they appear in the chord diagrams. I used Musescore and it will produce tab for a drop tuned guitar if you set it up that way.
That's interesting about the drop-tuned tabs in Musescore, bookmarked. I have at least temporarily abandoned tabs mostly to FORCE myself to learn staff notation but that may change in the future. Does Musescore give a scrolling staff playback option or only a paging one like Rosegarden?

I'm asking because what I did with RG was an afternoon's worth of image cutting and pasting to create a 20 thousand or so pixel wide image which I then made slide in Kdenlive. To make the timing work I also had to make all bars exactly of the same pixel width.... a day's worth of experimenting in all, there won't be be any corrections :lol:

Be it RG or SonicViewer what I'd really like in addition to an easily created scroll would be the ability to inserts my chord diagrams with or instead of the chord names. This will likely improve over time but the latter still blows the chord detection, depending on the track quality.
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Re: For jam-track makers

Post by D-Tuned »

I also notice that many jam tracks are repetitions of short chord progression. In such cases there's little point in being 15 minutes long since almost all video players offer looping. If there's a chorus and a verse maybe a 2-3 minute track at the most should do.
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Re: For jam-track makers

Post by tavasti »

D-Tuned wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:33 am I also notice that many jam tracks are repetitions of short chord progression.
Many songs are repetitions of short chord progression :-)
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Re: For jam-track makers

Post by Fmajor7add9 »

tavasti wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:53 am
D-Tuned wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:33 am I also notice that many jam tracks are repetitions of short chord progression.
Many songs are repetitions of short chord progression :-)
all pop, folk and rock songs are basically repitions of the same more or less diatonic chord progressions and melody snippets

writers like Burt Bacharach and Kurt Cobain (really) spice it up a bit (and others for sure as well)

the musical theatre tradition (Sound of Music, Evita, Cats, Les Miserables etc.) seems to be more expressive with all kind of odd meters thrown in, tempo changes, wild modulations, to up the drama I guess

riff rock based metal and such is probably another story, don't know much about that style

that's how my ears are tuned anyway, having started on guitar in an age before online tabs and only a limited collection available in the local library, so DIY ear training was mandatory and a quite exciting puzzle to figure out

pop quiz :), two song progressions that tricks the diatonic expecting ear:
EbM7add9 - Gm11 Dm11 - Fm7 - AbM7/Bb
Bm7 - CM7 - Dm7 - CM7
CM7 = major seven (C E G B)
Cm7 = minor seven (C Eb G Bb)
Last edited by Fmajor7add9 on Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: For jam-track makers

Post by merlyn »

EbM7add9 - Gm11 Dm11 - Fm7 - AbM7/Bb
Just looking at that it looks like Stevie Wonder. AbM7/Bb is his favourite chord :) transposed to various keys of course. I would call it Ab/Bb without the major seventh as putting the seventh in can be difficult to finger on guitar.

Taking AbM7/Bb as having a Bb root its Bb13 (no third). Ab/Bb is Bb11 (no third).
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Re: For jam-track makers

Post by Fmajor7add9 »

merlyn wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:31 am
EbM7add9 - Gm11 Dm11 - Fm7 - AbM7/Bb
Just looking at that it looks like Stevie Wonder. AbM7/Bb is his favourite chord :) transposed to various keys of course. I would call it Ab/Bb without the major seventh as putting the seventh in can be difficult to finger on guitar.

Taking AbM7/Bb as having a Bb root its Bb13 (no third). Ab/Bb is Bb11 (no third).
Stevie may very well have done it, the 2nd bar movement is new to me and just came up this week when looking at some rnb songs for a Jamulus jam.

The guys who taught me also called it the 11 chord (G11 = F/G, D11 = C/D)

In DADGAD the major seventh is almost always within reach though you can consider it the 6th to the bass note (what you notes as 13 above) instead and probably rarely rest on it at the end of a bar

The notation issue you raise here still remains though, re. thirds, which I probably omit most of the time on such a voicing since fingers are busy reaching 7, 9, 11, 13.

Then the issue is whether Bb13 is considered a dominant seven chord or a major seven.
In pop sheets I always write G9 when meaning G major seven plus the 9th degree of its major scale (G B D F# A), some use Gadd9 for that. You can add the 4th and the 6th ad lib without messing up the progression.
But my jazz teacher used G9 to mean G major with a minor seven and the 9th (G B D F A), same for G13 (G B D F A E)
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Re: For jam-track makers

Post by merlyn »

Fmajor7add9 wrote:In pop sheets I always write G9 when meaning G major seven plus the 9th degree of its major scale (G B D F# A), some use Gadd9 for that. You can add the 4th and the 6th ad lib without messing up the progression.
But my jazz teacher used G9 to mean G major with a minor seven and the 9th (G B D F A), same for G13 (G B D F A E)
There is some ambiguity in the all the different chord systems out there. But for the chord system you use yourself there should be no ambiguity. In the system I use (and I agree with your jazz teacher) G7 G9 G11 G13 are dominant chords. Gmaj7 or GM7 is a major chord.

Funny one the 11th. It's never played as R 3 5 b7 9 11 because the 11th (4th) and the 3rd clash. So for an 11th sound you could have G9sus = R 4 (11) 5 b7 9 or F/G which is R 4 (11) b7 9. If you see 11th written somewhere don't play the 11th and 3rd in the same chord :lol:
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Re: For jam-track makers

Post by Fmajor7add9 »

merlyn wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:02 pm Funny one the 11th. It's never played as R 3 5 b7 9 11 because the 11th (4th) and the 3rd clash. So for an 11th sound you could have G9sus = R 4 (11) 5 b7 9 or F/G which is R 4 (11) b7 9. If you see 11th written somewhere don't play the 11th and 3rd in the same chord :lol:
So what I'm playing all-the-time in DADGAD and call m11 is then a m7add11? Or a m11add3?

A G C D G (top (deep) to bottom (high) strings: 7x5555)
R b7 b3 4 b7
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