[Ableton Live 10]VST-Plugins not detected

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monologue
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[Ableton Live 10]VST-Plugins not detected

Post by monologue »

Hello Guys,

I am fairly new to Linux and therefore do experience a lot of problems inasmuch as I need to work with Ableton via wine. As I have just arrived here fairly new, I'll like to participate here more often while leaving Windows finally.

My Problem however is that Ableton Live 10 does not detect my VST-Files (FXpansion Etch, -Maul & -Bloom as a starting point). Thats pretty it, the scan reveals nothing and I had quite a way to come so far:

- Setting up a new OS (again): Ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS
- Installing Low-Latency-Kernel, setting up jackd
- Installing wine-staging 6.20 (latest version), also winetricks and some dependencies.
- Installing Ableton Live Suite 10.x.x
- Cannot choose VST-Folders because of a Bug.
- Remove Wine, etc.
- Install wine-staging 6.17, blacklist updating
- Choosing VST-Folder in Ableton works fine!
- Still not seeing the files, therefore installing yabridge and adding those VST-paths.
- Still no files detectable.

So I'm out of options: I know there are a lot of postings concerning Ableton but I did not recognize my problem somewhere. I even experience many posts that state how well VST-Plugins work.
Shall I try using Ableton Live via PlayOnLinux or Lutris?

Thanks in advance, I really appreciate your help.

/edit: I tried the same with Arturia Pigments and it works, athough not the licensing when it comes to log into the account! So it depends on FXpansion but nevertheless the question: Is there any way to do a work around?
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Re: [Ableton Live 10]VST-Plugins not detected

Post by Toejam76 »

Hi there. You could crosscheck by installing another host like the windows version of Reaper and see if it detects your VST to find out if it's a Live issue or coming from wine. Maybe the shell output gives a hint what's wrong by starting Live with 'wine Ableton.exe' or whatever the executable is called. If the VSTs are installed outside the wine folder (not recommended), they probably don't work because of permissions. Yabridge and other bridges are for native DAWs btw and not needed in your case.
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Re: [Ableton Live 10]VST-Plugins not detected

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

monologue wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:19 pm Hello Guys,

I am fairly new to Linux
Welcome! :)
monologue wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:19 pm [...]
I need to work with Ableton via wine.
Wow! Working with audio in Linux is no beginner "thing" if you ask me and using a Windows only application for that is ever harder.
monologue wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:19 pm [...]
My Problem however is that Ableton Live 10 does not detect my VST-Files
[...]
- Cannot choose VST-Folders because of a Bug.
[...]
- Install wine-staging 6.17, blacklist updating
- Choosing VST-Folder in Ableton works fine!
Wow! That's not a trivial action for somebody who's new to Linux. You appear to have a knack for this.
monologue wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:19 pm - Still not seeing the files, therefore installing yabridge and adding those VST-paths.
- Still no files detectable.
[...]
That's logical. YABride "bridges" Windows VST's to Linux so Linux sees it as a Linux VST (did you know there are 2 versions of VST's: Linux native and Windows native?). Your DAW (Ableton) is Windows native so it will not "see" anything Linux.
monologue wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:19 pm So I'm out of options: I know there are a lot of postings concerning Ableton but I did not recognize my problem somewhere. I even experience many posts that state how well VST-Plugins work.
Shall I try using Ableton Live via PlayOnLinux or Lutris?

Thanks in advance, I really appreciate your help.

/edit: I tried the same with Arturia Pigments and it works, athough not the licensing when it comes to log into the account! So it depends on FXpansion but nevertheless the question: Is there any way to do a work around?
Trying to "emulate" Windows in an other way might help. What @Toejam76 said is a good tip too. We do not know yet if this is a Wine or an Ableton/Windows problem. I've got no experience with Ableton but if you explicitly point that application to the place where your VST's are and it still doesn't recognise 'm it could be Wine or that you've pointed not to the right sub-directory. No idea how Ableton works. For finding the right VST dir this page might help.



I know that this is not a solution for your problem but can we persuade you to use another DAW? A Linux native one? Like Reaper or Qtractor? Using software that was written for one OS on another OS is never advisable/stable.
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Re: [Ableton Live 10]VST-Plugins not detected

Post by monologue »

Hi,

I might try to use reaper in some days, thanks for the advice. However, when I use the terminal with

Code: Select all

wine /home/myname/.wine/drive_c/ProgramData/Ableton/Live 10 Suite/Program/Live 10 Suite.exe
it does not work:

Code: Select all

ShellExecuteEx failed: File not found.
.

---

Thanks for welcoming me :)
Wow! Working with audio in Linux is no beginner "thing" if you ask me and using a Windows only application for that is ever harder.
Well, I'll work my way through the jungle...

Thank you for explaining the proper use of yabridge, I was not that sure about it :lol:

As I have stated, the VST-directories should be fine, inasmuch as I can use Arturia Pigments there. So I see wine as the problem here. My posted code above, is it wrong? If I can manage to start it via terminal, I could get some more output...

Thanks in advance!

P.S. No way for other DAW's :wink: Ableton is that awesome that I cannot go away from it :mrgreen:
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Re: [Ableton Live 10]VST-Plugins not detected

Post by Toejam76 »

The error message is because of the spaces in the path. Open a terminal in the program folder with the .exe and enter:

Code: Select all

wine Ableton\ Live\ 10\ Suite.exe
or

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wine '/home/username/.wine/drive_c/ProgramData/Ableton/Live 10 Suite/Program/Ableton Live 10 Suite.exe'
You can autocomplete the executable name by pressing TAB. I didn't meant you should use Reaper instead of Live. It's just for ruling a wrong wine configuration out.
You probably have to enable "Use VST3 system folder" in the plugin tab of Live or it won't find anything.
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Re: [Ableton Live 10]VST-Plugins not detected

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

Toejam76 wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 2:48 pm The error message is because of the spaces in the path. Open a terminal in the program folder with the .exe and enter:

Code: Select all

wine Ableton\ Live\ 10\ Suite.exe
or

Code: Select all

wine '/home/username/.wine/drive_c/ProgramData/Ableton/Live 10 Suite/Program/Ableton Live 10 Suite.exe'
You can autocomplete the executable name by pressing TAB. I didn't meant you should use Reaper instead of Live. It's just for ruling a wrong wine configuration out.
You probably have to enable "Use VST3 system folder" in the plugin tab of Live or it won't find anything.
I also noticed that the plugins from the company Fxpansion are considered "legacy" by them and they also require one to register 'm (link). Wine might choke on that.

Is there a free nice and easy lightweight Windows VST (preferably ver. 2) that we know for 100% sure works in Linux/Wine so we can ask this user to test Ableton with said VST? I personally am not happy with testing a DAW with "complicated" stuff that isn't even supported by its own manufacturer anymore.

BTW. Will Windows VST's even work in a Windows native DAW on Linux? I suspect the answer is: "Of course you dummmy!" but I ask just to be on the safe side...
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Re: [Ableton Live 10]VST-Plugins not detected

Post by Toejam76 »

@Linuxmusician01
Will Windows VST's even work in a Windows native DAW on Linux?
Yup, but there's an extra overhead for running the DAW with wine. The windows version of Reaper worked better with wasapi, I've fiddled around with Live11 for someone to test the waters. It does work, but not as good as native. I had a crash or two and the UI is a bit sluggish. Fsync might help, but haven't tried. I suspect there are a bunch of bugs. But better than nothing I guess if someone really wants to run this on Linux :)
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Re: [Ableton Live 10]VST-Plugins not detected

Post by tavasti »

monologue wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:19 pm /edit: I tried the same with Arturia Pigments and it works, athough not the licensing when it comes to log into the account! So it depends on FXpansion but nevertheless the question: Is there any way to do a work around?
Maybe FXpansion needs some libs which aren't available/some other configuration issue. I would test that plugin with carla-single, and see if there is some error message, but might be hard. Have anyone else reported that it runs ok with wine?

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carla-single win64 vst path/to/plugin.dll

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Re: [Ableton Live 10]VST-Plugins not detected

Post by Toejam76 »

@monologue
I think I just got the same bug as you but for Max plugins. I could not select a folder, because wine thinks a folder is not a folder but a object without anything associated to it. Drag&drop to a channel worked. I did not select the VST folders manually btw. Ableton found it by itself. I am still on wine 6.20 and 6.21 is the current one. I am careful to update, because there were some problems with previous versions. This is indeed a wine bug I believe which hopefully get fixed. Strange that it affects software differently.
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Re: [Ableton Live 10]VST-Plugins not detected

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

tavasti wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 6:24 am
monologue wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:19 pm /edit: I tried the same with Arturia Pigments and it works, athough not the licensing when it comes to log into the account! So it depends on FXpansion but nevertheless the question: Is there any way to do a work around?
Maybe FXpansion needs some libs which aren't available/some other configuration issue. I would test that plugin with carla-single, and see if there is some error message, but might be hard. Have anyone else reported that it runs ok with wine?

Code: Select all

carla-single win64 vst path/to/plugin.dll
Wait a minute. I read over that bit from @monologue. So VST's do work, it just that the FXpansion VST's don't work. Good advice to try that Windows VST with an other application than Ableton.

Again: using software (DAW's, VST's) from operating system A on operating system B is always going to be troublesome. It's possible for quick little things (like reading a document), but it's not advisable to do that intensively for an extended period of time. Sorry man, but that's just the way it is.
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Re: [Ableton Live 10]VST-Plugins not detected

Post by tavasti »

Linuxmusician01 wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:21 am Again: using software (DAW's, VST's) from operating system A on operating system B is always going to be troublesome. It's possible for quick little things (like reading a document), but it's not advisable to do that intensively for an extended period of time. Sorry man, but that's just the way it is.
Have you noticed, this subforum is 'Running non-linux software', not about 'running away from non-linux software' :-P

Anyway, if running Ableton, windows DAW in linux, then also plugins will be windows plugins.

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Re: [Ableton Live 10]VST-Plugins not detected

Post by Toejam76 »

Looks like all the 64 bit plugins are recognized and working, but none of the 32bit from Program Files (x86)/Steinberg/Vstplugins. The workaround for the folder issue is using drag&drop (in some cases). That worked for Max stuff and adding the sample folder to "Places". It unfortunately doesn't work for the 32bit VSTs. No idea about the FXpansion plugins, because I don't have those.
And I have to say, the more I use it the more I like it. All the stuff that comes with it, is really powerful and how the routing is done is kinda neat. But the piano roll is very rudimentary. Last time I used it was version 4 that came free with my interface and I thought it's a glorified DJ tool, but it sure has some tricks up its sleeve now.
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Re: [Ableton Live 10]VST-Plugins not detected

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

tavasti wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:50 am
Linuxmusician01 wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:21 am Again: using software (DAW's, VST's) from operating system A on operating system B is always going to be troublesome. It's possible for quick little things (like reading a document), but it's not advisable to do that intensively for an extended period of time. Sorry man, but that's just the way it is.
Have you noticed, this subforum is 'Running non-linux software', not about 'running away from non-linux software' :-P

Anyway, if running Ableton, windows DAW in linux, then also plugins will be windows plugins.
Ha ha. Indeed, I didn't notice. I stand corrected! :mrgreen:
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Re: [Ableton Live 10]VST-Plugins not detected

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

Toejam76 wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:07 pm Looks like all the 64 bit plugins are recognized and working, but none of the 32bit from Program Files (x86)/Steinberg/Vstplugins.
On 64 bit Windows and 32 bit VST's from Steinberg themselves:
[...]
in general, using 32-bit plug-ins in an 64-bit environment can be problematic and cause various problems.
[...]
Ditch old 32-bit plug-ins and find native 64-bit replacements. [remark by Linuxmusician01: I kid you not: this is a quote from Steinberg themselves!]
[...]
Use jBridge. jBridge is an inexpensive third-party solution for bridging.
1. Ableton is, I think, 64 bit only.
2. Wine nowadays is 64 bit per definition. You can install a 32 bit prefix/environment however.
3. Bridging 32 bit VST to 64 bit in Wine 64 bit, on Linux 64 bit... Auch!

That's what I liked 'bout Linux and Win VST's: 32 bit is as well supported as 64 bit. Erm... Windows stuff well supported on Linux? Well, as well as Win stuff is able to be well supported that is, I think... :roll:
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Re: [Ableton Live 10]VST-Plugins not detected

Post by Toejam76 »

I think I will leave it just like that. Not going to abandon the Reaper. Seems like the best solution at the moment, because it can run all the stuff. Getting that to work took long enough.
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