Why the notation editor is so important

MusE is a DAW for Linux with both MIDI and Audio editing. https://muse-sequencer.github.io

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Basslint
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Why the notation editor is so important

Post by Basslint »

MusE's notation editor is IMHO the feature which sets it apart from other DAWs and sequencers.

No other FLOSS program with music notation support in my experience has audio capabilities as advanced as MusE's.

While other DAWs offer excellent audio (Ardour) and MIDI sequencing (LMMS, Qtractor, Zrythm), MusE is the only one which also offers a notation editor.

These are only my thoughts, of course, which I just wanted to share :D
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Re: Why the notation editor is so important

Post by oscillator »

I have never used it, but if it works, I am sure that I will.

I recently (for the first time in my life) scored some music for flute and clarinet, and I did that by hand, even though the music partly was already recorded in MusE. Maybe MusE can already do this? I have to check it out!

Thanks for reminding me, @Basslint!

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Re: Why the notation editor is so important

Post by Basslint »

oscillator wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:25 am I have never used it, but if it works, I am sure that I will.

I recently (for the first time in my life) scored some music for flute and clarinet, and I did that by hand, even though the music partly was already recorded in MusE. Maybe MusE can already do this? I have to check it out!

Thanks for reminding me, @Basslint!
I have to thank you because before our collaboration I did not really take MusE into consideration - as a guitar player, Ardour felt simply too comfortable! Then I thought, MusE 4 recently came out, why I don't give it a try? And went on their issue tracker to find a very pleasant and welcoming environment! So much that I'm already trying to contribute to MusE.
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Re: Why the notation editor is so important

Post by oscillator »

Basslint wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 10:24 am I have to thank you because before our collaboration I did not really take MusE into consideration - as a guitar player, Ardour felt simply too comfortable! Then I thought, MusE 4 recently came out, why I don't give it a try? And went on their issue tracker to find a very pleasant and welcoming environment! So much that I'm already trying to contribute to MusE.
That is great in so many ways! :)

Welcome @Basslint! We are happy to have you here! :)

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Re: Why the notation editor is so important

Post by garvalf »

Basslint wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:03 am MusE is the only one which also offers a notation editor.
and what about Rosegarden? It has all those features as well I suppose? (But I feel more confortable with MusE!)
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Re: Why the notation editor is so important

Post by Basslint »

garvalf wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:05 pm and what about Rosegarden? It has all those features as well I suppose? (But I feel more confortable with MusE!)
Rosegarden does not try to be a DAW, sadly. If they did, they would implement LV2 at the very least. :?
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Re: Why the notation editor is so important

Post by tezzerii »

It's important to me because I have often had sheet music to play on midi.
I can read music, but not fluently, I don't sight read - so being able to copy onto a music stave is so useful.
Ok, I could do it in Musescore and import it, but I don't have to !
Also, I love that you can drag the note length on the stave - I've not seen that feature in any other app with a stave editor.
MusE has become my go-to sequencer because it does everything I need. I like LMMS because it's simple, just works without any complicated setup, and has lots of built-in stuff. Also like the beat-bassline editor - but there are limitations I don't have with MusE. Eg no drum editor, no stave input.
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Re: Why the notation editor is so important

Post by mdiemer »

I'm new both to this forum and Muse. I just installed an earlier version from Synaptic in Bodhi Linux, then discovered there was a newer version. I'm now on Muse 4. I was excited to find it has a score editor. My Windows DAW has been sonar, which of course has one as well. I'm a weird blend of a notation-based composer who prefers using a DAW or sequencer. I did my projects in Sonar 8.5, then did the score in Notion.

I have tried several times to get rosegarden going, but without much success. Muse is loaded by comparison. It is like an open-source version of Cakewalk. Amazing.

I'll look around here to see if I can get some tips on how to set things up for sound. so far I don't have any. I'm hoping to eventually get Garritan Personal Orchestra going with a bridge, if it's possible to do that. That would give me a base to build on.

Notation is indeed important, and Muse is one of an extremely limited number of Linux DAWS that have it. Very impressive!
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Re: Why the notation editor is so important

Post by j_e_f_f_g »

Basslint wrote: MusE's notation editor sets it apart from other DAWs and sequencers.
Agreed.

But I would also cite the original developers wise decision to study and adopt the best features of popular sequencers. Specifically, the developer had the foresight to copy Cakewalk's "Event Filter" feature. This makes it possible to tailor nearly every edit command, such as a "Cut", to affect specific events based upon time, note range, note length, midi channel, and other criteria. And you can simultaneously apply some, or all, of those criteria, thus avoid the need to run several consecutive iterations of the "Cut".

Too many Linux developers don't bother checking out what else is out there, before they start designing/coding. And they then end up creating something that has flaws which could have been avoided, as well as omit useful features that could have been cohesively incorporated right at the start.

Alsa is a good example of a project where the main developer failed to do adequate assessment of existing systems before he started designing/coding. That accounts for the bulk of why alsa is such a bad/incoherent/bloated API.

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Re: Why the notation editor is so important

Post by mdiemer »

j_e_f_f_g wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:42 am
Basslint wrote: MusE's notation editor sets it apart from other DAWs and sequencers.
Agreed.

But I would also cite the original developers wise decision to study and adopt the best features of popular sequencers. Specifically, the developer had the foresight to copy Cakewalk's "Event Filter" feature. This makes it possible to tailor nearly every edit command, such as a "Cut", to affect specific events based upon time, note range, note length, midi channel, and other criteria. And you can simultaneously apply some, or all, of those criteria, thus avoid the need to run several consecutive iterations of the "Cut".

Too many Linux developers don't bother checking out what else is out there, before they start designing/coding. And they then end up creating something that has flaws which could have been avoided, as well as omit useful features that could have been cohesively incorporated right at the start.

Alsa is a good example of a project where the main developer failed to do adequate assessment of existing systems before he started designing/coding. That accounts for the bulk of why alsa is such a bad/incoherent/bloated API.
Wow, it has an Event Filter? I was one of the few Cakewalk users who actually used that thing. most users didn't even know about it. It's extremely useful. for example, I could select all "D4" notes, which say were too loud, due to to the velocity value. I would then apply a velocity correction to all of them at once. I used it for Length also. And other things as well. Really powerful if you're doing large scores with hundreds of measures.
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Re: Why the notation editor is so important

Post by j_e_f_f_g »

mdiemer wrote: it has an Event Filter?
Yes, but unlike Cakewalk, the event filter window doesn't automatically appear whenever you issue a command, There's a menu item to open the event filter. You have to use that to select the events you want filtered, Then, after the events are selected, you can issue a command.

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Re: Why the notation editor is so important

Post by spamatica »

j_e_f_f_g wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:23 pm
mdiemer wrote: it has an Event Filter?
Yes, but unlike Cakewalk, the event filter window doesn't automatically appear whenever you issue a command, There's a menu item to open the event filter. You have to use that to select the events you want filtered, Then, after the events are selected, you can issue a command.
Suggestions on how to integrate it better? Not sure what issuing a command here means.

Only speaking for myself I realize the event filter is quite powerful but it's pretty far off my own comfort zone so I hardly know how to use it in a real situation...
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Re: Why the notation editor is so important

Post by bluesboy2013 »

I am new to Linux as well as MusE. I have the new MusE 4 version, and regarding the score editor I can say that it lacks some options such as setting the key, displaying several staves at the same time. Could the developers of the program add these options? Cakewalk's Score Editor is a good example of what MusE should have.
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Re: Why the notation editor is so important

Post by mdiemer »

bluesboy2013 wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 6:35 pm I am new to Linux as well as MusE. I have the new MusE 4 version, and regarding the score editor I can say that it lacks some options such as setting the key, displaying several staves at the same time. Could the developers of the program add these options? Cakewalk's Score Editor is a good example of what MusE should have.
I can open several, or even all, staves by selecting them, then going somewhere up top (not on my music rig at the moment or I'd be more specific), and choosing 'score' under one of the drop-down menus. I think it's either under View or Display. anyway, you then have options under 'score' how you want to open staves.

The score editor could use some work, yes. My main wish is to be able to label the instruments. In a large orchestral score, it is very confusing when all you see is a bunch of staves with notes. you have to count down how many staves the bassoons are for example, from the Arranger view. And by default they are all treble clef. Easy enough to fix (right-click on clef), but it adds to the initial confusion. Also, adding an alto clef for violas would be another needed fix. While they're at it, might's well add the little-used tenor clef. although not really necessary.

In general I was very pleasantly surprised by Muse's Scorer Editor. It allows infinite scrolling in both directions, so you can select any number of measures and edit them, just like in Cakewalk. Cubase does not allow you to do that. I can transpose, edit velocity and length, copy.paste etc just like in Cakewalk. Muse just needs a few things fixed and it will be almost equal to Cakewalk's. Since it's free, however, we can't expect to get everything we would like. for me, it's a real find. The only other DAW for Linux that has a good score or notation editor is Reaper. but as a former sonar user, I like Muse much better. It's almost modeled on Cakewalk! I find Reaper's GUI hard to take, and the fonts are way too small.
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Re: Why the notation editor is so important

Post by mdiemer »

Here's a bit more info on how to use Score View on Muse.:

Problem 1: If you open all instruments in score window, selecting an instrument to edit it can take 4 seconds if you have a lot of insts, like 30 for example. This slows down your workflow. Assuming you do editing in the score view, which I do, but maybe most people don't. anyway, I have found if I select the sequence in arranger, then open up score, it will be selected instantly. Another thing I do is I make several score windows and keep them tabbed at the bottom. One for woods, another for brass, strings etc. Then you open just the section you are working on, and selecting is quick. It's slow if you have the entire score in view. The key is the number of instruments. This all happens because the devs probably didn't think people would use the score to actually do their editing. but that was exactly my workflow in Cakewalk.

Problem 2: Changing clef in Score View doesn't save. I think if you change it in Arranger View, then it does save. Although I'm not sure about that.

Problem 3: The instruments are not numbered or named in Score View. This makes it hard to figure out which is which. The best I can do is to use the sections, as described above. This at least narrows things down ,so it's easier to see what is what. It would help if I could annotate. but all you can do in Score View is put in notes, as far as I can see. In Cakewalk you can add text. I can't see any way to do this in Muse.

Another issue is the appearance factor. Traditional black on white would be better than the phase=reversed appearance of Score View. It kind of looks greyed-out. I have found the Ocean theme is best.

Despite these issues, I think it's great that Muse has a Score View. There are workarounds which allow me to still have a decent workflow, although not quite as fast as I had in Cakewalk.
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