New Laptop Advice April 2022

Talk about your MIDI interfaces, microphones, keyboards...

Moderators: MattKingUSA, khz

foodforester1
Established Member
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed May 26, 2021 10:10 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 1 time

New Laptop Advice April 2022

Post by foodforester1 »

I am relatively new to the concept of computer music, having come (long ago) from an analog synth environment and have only used computers as a tool in my work over 3 decades in IT support.

I am now needing to buy a new computer for my new computer music hobby, and am looking for some advice on what to buy as a laptop. Sadly, being on a (low) fixed income as an aged pensioner, I cannot throw a fortune at this hobby.

I am currently trying to run AV_Linux_MX-21_Edition-21_ahs_x64 and updates on a VERY under powered low end laptop with little success due to a constant stream of XRUN's making snap-crackle-pop noises, all while red-lining the poor little CPU - according to 'conky', both CPU cores running at greater than 85% while trying to play one of the LMMS demo songs as supplied with the lmms-1.2.2-linux-x86_64.AppImage.

The laptop that I am using at the moment is an AMD, but I have found that AMD seems to need MORE access to the internet to get the system running properly, and constant- speedy- internet- connection is just not available to me in my very rural environment, so I would prefer to use Intel and NOT AMD.
Acer Aspire3 AMD A4-9120e RADEON R3, 4 COMPUTE CORES 2C+2G, 8GB Ram

My question is - What are the most important attribute needed to eliminate these XRUN's?
CPU Intel i5 or Intel i7
RAM size 8G or 16GB

Obviously, in this scenario, 'more is better', but not necessarily on the budget?!?!?!?

I understand that a dedicated Graphics Processor is a 'must have' to run the DSP part of music making and make the relevant computations required by FX plugins and automation etc..
GPU's are a very new area of computing to me, as I have not been involved in any environment where they would have been useful, not even games - which I never play.

I have been looking at some laptops with Intel i5, 8GB/16GB RAM and dedicated GPU and some of these lower end so-called 'Gaming' units do fall within my affordability range.

Would such a unit be adequate?

Any advice would be gratefully accepted.

Thanking you in anticipation.
j_e_f_f_g
Established Member
Posts: 2032
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:48 pm
Been thanked: 357 times

Re: New Laptop Advice April 2022

Post by j_e_f_f_g »

Why a laptop? You can get better specs, for a cheaper price, in a desktop PC.

Author of BackupBand at https://sourceforge.net/projects/backupband/files/
My fans show their support by mentioning my name in their signature.

foodforester1
Established Member
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed May 26, 2021 10:10 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: New Laptop Advice April 2022

Post by foodforester1 »

I do agree, but my electrical power is from stand-alone solar, and laptops are less power hungry than desktops, to my knowledge.
j_e_f_f_g
Established Member
Posts: 2032
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:48 pm
Been thanked: 357 times

Re: New Laptop Advice April 2022

Post by j_e_f_f_g »

foodforester1 wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:24 am stand-alone solar
In that case, maybe a fanless, low power device like a raspberry pi may be a possibility. These are intended for third-world markets where things like electrical power supply is a challenge. They won't be as powerful as those gaming rigs. But then, a current-hungry device with spinning fans may be a disaster with your setup. Check out;

https://linuxgizmos.com/

Author of BackupBand at https://sourceforge.net/projects/backupband/files/
My fans show their support by mentioning my name in their signature.

User avatar
Linuxmusician01
Established Member
Posts: 1503
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:38 pm
Location: Holland
Has thanked: 734 times
Been thanked: 130 times

Re: New Laptop Advice April 2022

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

My 2 cents.

1. Linux on laptops is difficult. Laptops often have special hardware to be power friendly, fan-less, small form-factor, etc.

2. A Chromebook would be the cheapest option. But BEWARE. Linux is "officially" supported by Chromebook/Google via Crostini. However, you might not be able to access external hardware like the ever so needed USB audio device to record music. They won't allow you to do that for some f-ing reason. Enter Crouton, see below.

3. A Chromebook used to be able to run "hacked" Linux via Crouton. However, it's not supported anymore by David Schneider (he got a job now). If I'm not mistaken you can still use it but it appears to be on the way out.

4. Linux on a Chromebook requires an Intel processor, the popular ARM is not as well supported or not at all, dunno exactly...

5. What computer specs you need for music production depends VERY MUCH on what you're gonna do. If you want to use a DAW that's been developed for Windows/Apple then that's gonna be hard for Linux. And running many bridged Windows VST via Wine is hard, very hard on your computer. However, if you go with a Linux native DAW, use only lightweight Linux VST's etc. then the world's your oyster. I've got Qtractor on an old Asus eeePC (1.6 MHz CPU, 1 GB RAM).

6. AFAIK music software has nothing to do with graphically intensive work. What video chip/card/GPU you have doesn't matter. Not for Linux, Windows or Apple.

7. A Raspberry Pi is (still) not powerful enough for stable full blown Linux Desktop. Let alone running a DAW.

So you must do a lot of homework before buying a laptop for Linux. It is still not for the faint of heart after all these years... :cry:

And Music on Linux can be very easy on hardware but becomes very demanding very soon. Choose wisely.
Last edited by Linuxmusician01 on Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
wjl
Established Member
Posts: 224
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:27 pm
Location: near Frankfurt, Germany
Has thanked: 48 times
Been thanked: 26 times
Contact:

Re: New Laptop Advice April 2022

Post by wjl »

I had to look up your AMD A4-9120e processor and the machine, seems to be a bit underpowered for real time stuff like music...

But first off, you don't need a dedicated graphics card, none of our machines have them. An Intel Core i5 or better (same for the newer Radeon G processors) will do music just fine. We have an older i5 (6th gen or so) in a Dell Inspiron which serves our daughter (on piano) quite well, my wife has a newer 8th gen i5 in her Lenovo laptop, and I have the oldest 4th gen i5 in my desktop machine, still good enough for Ardour. No xruns if I don't set the buffers too low.

From work I always had Lenovo laptops and can recommend them for Linux, especially the more "pro" oriented versions like the T series (their normal standard workhorse), or the P series which we got but which again *do* have separated graphics. All of them do music just fine. Dell has notebooks preconfigured with Ubuntu, as does Lenovo, but these might be out of the price range perhaps. Look for good and refurbished T series Lenovo if you can't spend that much, the keyboards alone are worth it.

That said, I just built a new desktop machine for my wife, with a Radeon 7 5700G, 32GB RAM, 2TB SSD and so on for under 1,000€, and that one blows everything else we have here off their desks. So for heavy loads (think video processing or lots of plugins in your DAW), a desktop might be the better option. Note that even this Radeon G has built-in graphics, no problems with that at all.

Good luck,
Wolfgang
more about me on my blog
tavasti
Established Member
Posts: 2041
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:56 am
Location: Kangasala, Finland
Has thanked: 369 times
Been thanked: 207 times
Contact:

Re: New Laptop Advice April 2022

Post by tavasti »

Linuxmusician01 wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:37 am 7. A Raspberry Pi is (still) not powerful enough for stable full blown Linux Desktop. Let alone running a DAW.
Reaper in Rasp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImipK1q7dHU

Tracktion Waveform in Rasp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT5eOhjhuT4

Renoise runs in Rasp:
https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=260147

Sure, limited power, so you cannot do all the possible things. But that is normal, I have seen some synths running out of cpu power in my (old) i7 :-)

Linux veteran & Novice musician

Latest track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycVrgGtrBmM

j_e_f_f_g
Established Member
Posts: 2032
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:48 pm
Been thanked: 357 times

Re: New Laptop Advice April 2022

Post by j_e_f_f_g »

wjl wrote:a Radeon 7 5700G, 32GB RAM, 2TB SSD
I agree with what you're saying (including about built-in graphics being plenty good enough -- and actually probably preferable given his power constraints). But he's going off of solar power, and I just have this scenario in my head where, if he gets a machine with a current AMD or Intel desktop CPU (instead of an S, H, P, or even U series), it's going to rapidly deplete his power source. And the result will be entirely impractical.

If it weren't for the solar power, I'd recommend what you said.

Author of BackupBand at https://sourceforge.net/projects/backupband/files/
My fans show their support by mentioning my name in their signature.

User avatar
Linuxmusician01
Established Member
Posts: 1503
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:38 pm
Location: Holland
Has thanked: 734 times
Been thanked: 130 times

Re: New Laptop Advice April 2022

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

tavasti wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:47 am
Linuxmusician01 wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:37 am 7. A Raspberry Pi is (still) not powerful enough for stable full blown Linux Desktop. Let alone running a DAW.
Reaper in Rasp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImipK1q7dHU

Tracktion Waveform in Rasp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT5eOhjhuT4

Renoise runs in Rasp:
https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=260147

Sure, limited power, so you cannot do all the possible things. But that is normal, I have seen some synths running out of cpu power in my (old) i7 :-)
Nice to see that it works in some specific instances. But would you seriously recommend using a Pi for music production? Because that is what was asked. Not if it is at all possible, but what is recommended.
User avatar
wjl
Established Member
Posts: 224
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:27 pm
Location: near Frankfurt, Germany
Has thanked: 48 times
Been thanked: 26 times
Contact:

Re: New Laptop Advice April 2022

Post by wjl »

j_e_f_f_g wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:56 am
wjl wrote:a Radeon 7 5700G, 32GB RAM, 2TB SSD
if he gets a machine with a current AMD or Intel desktop CPU (instead of an S, H, P, or even U series), it's going to rapidly deplete his power source.
Good point Jeff, I forgot that. So yes, a notebook is the better alternative in that case, even tho my desktop draws ~32W on idle, that newer Radeon machine about 20W, so the ~15 Watts from notebooks aren't that much lower. And idling is what most machines do most of the time (even between keystrokes). And note that even simple dedicated graphics cards usually take more than these whole machines...

Also forgot this one - haven't seen it yet, but that could be an eco-friendly way of upgrading if it had to be:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... or-upgrade
Last edited by wjl on Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
more about me on my blog
tavasti
Established Member
Posts: 2041
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:56 am
Location: Kangasala, Finland
Has thanked: 369 times
Been thanked: 207 times
Contact:

Re: New Laptop Advice April 2022

Post by tavasti »

Linuxmusician01 wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:06 pm Nice to see that it works in some specific instances. But would you seriously recommend using a Pi for music production? Because that is what was asked. Not if it is at all possible, but what is recommended.
Good point. No, I don't think I would recommend it unless person is prepared to accept limitations 'no you cannot use synth X', and do tricks like bouncing/freezing tracks to be able to continue work.

Sure rasp would provide more cpu power than computers 20 years ago, but I did not produce music then, so I cannot say what it was like?

Linux veteran & Novice musician

Latest track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycVrgGtrBmM

User avatar
sadko4u
Established Member
Posts: 983
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:03 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 359 times

Re: New Laptop Advice April 2022

Post by sadko4u »

What's the budget?

I would like to recommend to look towards the ASUS TUF Gaming Laptop series with AMD Ryzen on board.
Have such with Ryzen 4800H and 16 GB RAM, very satisfied with the price/configuration relation.
LSP (Linux Studio Plugins) Developer and Maintainer.
User avatar
bluzee
Established Member
Posts: 338
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:43 pm
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 88 times

Re: New Laptop Advice April 2022

Post by bluzee »

I understand that a dedicated Graphics Processor is a 'must have' to run the DSP part of music making and make the relevant computations required by FX plugins and automation etc..
What plugins etc. use the GPU for processing? I know the crypto miners use GPU power and I believe that can also be specific to the type of GPU. I have not heard of plugins using the GPU. Dedicated GPU will add to your power demands. If you must I would recommend AMD and highly discourage nVidia. nVidia will limit your low latency kernel choices if you can get a low latency kernel going at all with the proprietary driver. Using nouveau driver with nVidia mitigates any advantage to having the dedicated GPU. A low latency kernel is a must.

Not sure why AMD would require more internet access. Compare the power usage and I think AMD generally uses less power than Intel now.

For non-dedicated graphics Intel supports more codecs and works well with vaapi for encoding/decoding video. AMD support has improved a lot though and may be sufficient.

I prefer desktop for expand-ability. There are low power desktop options that use about the same power as a laptop but chip availability is very poor right now. Most things are out of stock.

There are some good deals on laptops when you deal direct with the manufacturer web site. Dell online has some very good deals.

Ultimately your want fastest cpu combined with a goodly amount of RAM and storage that your budget allows. Watch out for RAM that is soldered on as this can limit future upgrade ability. How much you really need I guess depends on how big your projects are. I would probably start with at least 8Gb. If you ever plan to use Windows OS as well then double that. It's not a big expense to go from 8 to 16Gb anyway and in the end might be helpful.
RockMaster
Established Member
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:26 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: New Laptop Advice April 2022

Post by RockMaster »

Out of the mainstream brands, only Dell ships laptops with Linux (Ubuntu) installed and with official support. Even then some minor hardware features may not work, such as power button fingerprint in my case, but not a big deal.

Dell's Precision line is about as good as it gets for Linux, unfortunately it's not cheap.
tavasti
Established Member
Posts: 2041
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:56 am
Location: Kangasala, Finland
Has thanked: 369 times
Been thanked: 207 times
Contact:

Re: New Laptop Advice April 2022

Post by tavasti »

For laptop compatibility with linux, I haven't met really any laptop that does not work with linux. Various HP and Lenovo laptops, and all working. With my current HP mobile workstation there is one clitch: external display does not work before computer has been suspended. After suspend it works.

Linux veteran & Novice musician

Latest track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycVrgGtrBmM

Post Reply