Dac ? soundcard ? budget options for mixing?

Talk about your MIDI interfaces, microphones, keyboards...

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Gps
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Dac ? soundcard ? budget options for mixing?

Post by Gps »

I have of course searched the net, but that did not help much.

Some seem to think you need a dac, for making music.

This is were my confusion starts, is the sound on my pc not created by a sound chip ?
I don't get how adding an amplifier will improve that sound.

Am I maybe not understanding right what a dac is ?

I would think, to get better sound, you would need a soundcard, with a better sound then the onboard sound chip.


About mixing, it drives me nuts I sometimes get conflicting feedback about my tracks.
One person says the drums are to loud, another one states there are not loud enough.

I think I need studio monitors to solve that, but worried I can't afford good ones, and getting cheap ones probably won't do me any good?

Are there relative cheap headphones / headsets that are good for mixing?

Right now I have a Sennheiser gsp 300 gaming headset. I am a big fan of Sennheiser, but can probably not afford their studio gear.
I am happy with the gsp 300, but wonder if a gaming headset is good for mixing?

Any thoughts suggestions on this ? :)
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Re: Dac ? soundcard ? budget options for mixing?

Post by bluebell »

A DAC is a Digital-to-Analog converter. It converts sigital signals (e.g. a TOSLInk or SPDIF output) to analog audio that can be fed into an amplifier.

An audio adapter is a DAC that can speak with aour computer, e.g. via USB or PCI. Most PCs have an audio adapter built in.

The quality of produced WAV, FLAC or mp3 files does not depend on the quality of the audio adapter and DAC because they are not used in this step.

Most cheap audio adapters have a good enough quality when playing music. The advantages of external high quality audio adapters are to be found when recording with microphones, since they have better preamps and 48V phantom power that's needed for some microphones.

I recommend mixing with speakers. A mix that sounds good with speakers sounds good on my headphones as well, but not vice versa.

If you spend more than 500 bucks on active speakers then you should invest some money for acoustic treatment of your room, else you might get disappointed.

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Re: Dac ? soundcard ? budget options for mixing?

Post by Gps »

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Re: Dac ? soundcard ? budget options for mixing?

Post by Gps »

After some thinking, and googling on what active speakers are, its simple.

Need to get some budget, then go to the shop (I linked) and listen to the speakers.

Found out one of their shops is in my city, Amsterdam.

Don't know the shop well. I once ordered a keystation mini 32 there, and asked if I could return it, if it did not work on Linux.
Their answer was simple, you can always return stuff when you're not happy with it.

It's a shop for people like us. although I doubt they will know much about Linux.

I have looked at their site before, I saw all kinds of brands I have never heard off.
They have Sennheiser too though. ( head phones,microphones and more )
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Re: Dac ? soundcard ? budget options for mixing?

Post by Gps »

I think I am gonna email that shop I talked before in this topic.
First need to know how they deal with this corona bullshit, I might have to make an appointment and wear a not working mouthmask. :roll:

I just watched a vid from them on how to set up a home studio.
Interesting stuff on how to make you room better sound suited, but because I don't want to record stuff, less important for me, and my budget is already tight.
They also show midi controller, but I already have one.
The tweeters need to be directed to your ear. (ear height)
They agree with the advise giving to me on this forum, mix with speakers. (instead of with a headset / headphone) :P
They state that the dac they show in the vid replaces the onboard sound chip, and gives a little bit better sound.

This must mean those speaker are not connected to a pc like I thought. (Like how my Sennheiser headset is connected)
I can see trouble, when I want to connect my gaming headset to that dac.

The build in mike being a problem, but maybe this can be solved by one 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapters. and one for the inbuild mike.

When I email them I can also ask if I can listen to them in the store.
They sell quite allot of studio monitors, enough to make me wonder if you can listen to them all without an appointment.

This is at least a shop for people like us, they also sell guitars.

I was hoping to not go much over 300 euro.
The speakers are 191 euro for two speakers.
De devine dac (same brand as the speakers I am looking at) 75 euro.

The speakers do have a positive reviews, mostly about value for money. :)
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Re: Dac ? soundcard ? budget options for mixing?

Post by Gps »

Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd Gen

I was watching a you tube vid a bout this, and then the person testing it, claimed when you plug in a headphone the speakers wont mute ?

I can't imagine you have to listen to the speakers, when using a headphone ?
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Re: Dac ? soundcard ? budget options for mixing?

Post by bluzee »

Pretty normal behaviour for audio interfaces. They don't disconnect the mains when connecting a headphone like a laptop or cell phone is expected to do. You would mute speaker mains with an external control.
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Re: Dac ? soundcard ? budget options for mixing?

Post by Gps »

Thank you, well that is a problem for me.

Just when I thought I figured it all out, I find a new problem.
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Re: Dac ? soundcard ? budget options for mixing?

Post by Michael Willis »

I'm using a 1st gen Focusrite Scarlett 2i4. It has two seperate volume dials for speakers and headphones. When I want to use only headphones, I turn the speaker volume down all the way.
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Re: Dac ? soundcard ? budget options for mixing?

Post by Gps »

Thank you, that would be good enough for me.

So I need to make sure the DAC I get, has an option like that.

I had already asked for help on Tweakers too. (A dutch computer site, which used to say: If it ain't broke tweak it)
Good site for dutch people looking for advise on computers, but most use of course windows.
Its a bit like Tom's hardware.


I asked about studio monitors, and they advised me to not get the devine set I linked above.

I comes down to spending a bit more, and getting decent stuff.

They did mention like this forum, the Focusrite Scarlett, and then JBL or Adam 5 speakers of around 160 euro a piece.

I need to go the the BAX shop, but what is holding me back is having to wear a mouth mask. :(

I was hoping for 200 - 300 euro, but if I go for 450 euro max, I can get everything I need including cables and a stand or foam pad. :)

My timing seems right now pipewire is here. Not sure if I am using it already, I did notice openSUSE tumbleweed installing at least some parts of pipewire.
I also know I can set LMMS to use JACK.
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Re: Dac ? soundcard ? budget options for mixing?

Post by bluzee »

Gps wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:35 pm
So I need to make sure the DAC I get, has an option like that.
Sorry, I thought you had already purchased the solo. Indeed once you move up most interfaces will have a separate control for headphone out and mains out.

If budget is an issue take a look at the Behringer UMC series devices. I've used Scarlett devices and I've used UMC devices and I have no qualms recommending a UMC. Presonus also make very attractive Class Compliant devices that are priced similarly to the Scarlett.

My main device is still a very old PCI card. It does require external preamp though. They can often be picked up cheaply used on ebay as Windows and Mac no longer support these. Sound is very good and work perfectly in Linux. The Linux driver was always better than the Windows one.
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Re: Dac ? soundcard ? budget options for mixing?

Post by Gps »

Budget is an issue, but 450 euro I can do.
I have been saving a bit.

Very interested in a DAC, because I am not that impressed with the onboard sound of my Asrock 450 M pro which seems to have caps (capacitors) for people like us. (audio nerds)
Don't get me wrong the sound is not bad, its pretty good at least on my Sennheiser GSP 300. (gaming headset)
Which is probably totally not good for mixing, because it even makes mp3 sound good. :wink:

The problem I encounter is because I am also a gamer.
(its why I have a headset instead of an headphone)
I am pretty sure I won't make my neighbours happy when I frag online with studio monitors on. (at night :lol:)

So being able to turn of the monitors or at least mute them is a must for me.

Another problem might be my headset, but I can maybe fix this with one 3.5 to 6.3 mm adapter for the headphone part, then a 3.5 to that pro connection used on studio monitors for the microphone part.
I know those cables exist, because its how I could connect the studio monitors to me pc, without a DAC.

This could also end with me having to buy a microphone and headphone, but we will see.
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Re: Dac ? soundcard ? budget options for mixing?

Post by Michael Willis »

Gps wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:24 pm So being able to turn of the monitors or at least mute them is a must for me.
My active monitors are easy to turn off. If I didn't have a separate volume dial, I would just reach behind the monitors and flip the switch on each one.
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Re: Dac ? soundcard ? budget options for mixing?

Post by Gps »

:shock:

:lol:

Thank you, I never thought of that option. now that's a problem solved.
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Re: Dac ? soundcard ? budget options for mixing?

Post by sunrat »

Gps wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:35 pm JBL or Adam 5 speakers of around 160 euro a piece.
Get the ADAM T5V. I auditioned them against the JBL LSR305 a while back and they were vastly better. I actually ended up buying EVE SC205 and also own a pair of ADAM A5X which are both fantastic but are a little over 160 euro.
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