Ultralite AVB
Moderators: MattKingUSA, khz
Re: Ultralite AVB
Follow-up AVB Ultralite ESS with Drumfix's ua101.c module:
It's been two days running this device and trying to isolate what's causing the issues. After exploring various tweak combinations I can summarize as follows:
1. Any kernel 5.8.X with default options + Drumfix's module: a few seconds of sound alternating with stops and artifacts. Unusable.
2. Any kernel 5.8.X + Drumfix's module + setting USB host smp_affinity to use a single CPU: from a few minutes to a few hours of sound, a very noticeable improvement. Then channel hoping back again. Usable-ish with jack-plumbing doing persistent connections to outputs 1-2, 9-10 and 17-18.
3. Any kernel 5.8.X + Drumfix's module + setting USB host smp_affinity to use a single CPU + kernel boot options "acpi_irq_nobalance nowatchdog nohz=off intel_idle.max_cstate=1": rock solid 24 hours of sound without any issue. WIN!
In terms of tweaking, everything else seems to make no difference. I mean, by following the option 3 above I don't need to remove EHCI, or to unload other USB modules, or to use a specific kernel version, or to set CPU governor, or set queue_length, none of this is necessary. Really, I couldn't be happier, thanks again @Drumfix. I hope it works for everybody and gives some direction for an official module in the future. If something changes I'll report here. Hopefully not!
It's been two days running this device and trying to isolate what's causing the issues. After exploring various tweak combinations I can summarize as follows:
1. Any kernel 5.8.X with default options + Drumfix's module: a few seconds of sound alternating with stops and artifacts. Unusable.
2. Any kernel 5.8.X + Drumfix's module + setting USB host smp_affinity to use a single CPU: from a few minutes to a few hours of sound, a very noticeable improvement. Then channel hoping back again. Usable-ish with jack-plumbing doing persistent connections to outputs 1-2, 9-10 and 17-18.
3. Any kernel 5.8.X + Drumfix's module + setting USB host smp_affinity to use a single CPU + kernel boot options "acpi_irq_nobalance nowatchdog nohz=off intel_idle.max_cstate=1": rock solid 24 hours of sound without any issue. WIN!
In terms of tweaking, everything else seems to make no difference. I mean, by following the option 3 above I don't need to remove EHCI, or to unload other USB modules, or to use a specific kernel version, or to set CPU governor, or set queue_length, none of this is necessary. Really, I couldn't be happier, thanks again @Drumfix. I hope it works for everybody and gives some direction for an official module in the future. If something changes I'll report here. Hopefully not!
- bluebell
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Re: Ultralite AVB
Interesting. I had no problems at all on my machine even without special boot options, maybe beause the Core i7 performs well. I added your boot options and it still runs fine. Hard to tell if there are some improvements when doing real work with Qtractor.tvaz wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:21 pm 3. Any kernel 5.8.X + Drumfix's module + setting USB host smp_affinity to use a single CPU + kernel boot options "acpi_irq_nobalance nowatchdog nohz=off intel_idle.max_cstate=1": rock solid 24 hours of sound without any issue. WIN!
In terms of tweaking, everything else seems to make no difference. I mean, by following the option 3 above I don't need to remove EHCI, or to unload other USB modules, or to use a specific kernel version, or to set CPU governor, or set queue_length, none of this is necessary. Really, I couldn't be happier, thanks again @Drumfix. I hope it works for everybody and gives some direction for an official module in the future. If something changes I'll report here. Hopefully not!
EDIT:
That's crazy. Adding "nowatchdog" lowers the realtime CPU displayed with Qjackctl from 44% to 37% on a given Qtractor project with many tracks and plugins compared to omitting "nowatchdog" on my Core i7 notebook computer.
EDIT2:
On another machine with Core i5 those options had no effect at all.
Linux – MOTU UltraLite AVB – Qtractor – http://suedwestlicht.saar.de/
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Re: Ultralite AVB
For info and to say thanks... I have an Ultralite Mk4 with ESS chip.
Having done the following kernel 5.8.15 + Drumfix's module + setting USB host smp_affinity to use a single CPU + kernel boot options "acpi_irq_nobalance nowatchdog nohz=off intel_idle.max_cstate=1" I can happily say it works, although the Drumfix module alone was not enough. I haven't done any further testing to see exactly what does what.
Cheers
Having done the following kernel 5.8.15 + Drumfix's module + setting USB host smp_affinity to use a single CPU + kernel boot options "acpi_irq_nobalance nowatchdog nohz=off intel_idle.max_cstate=1" I can happily say it works, although the Drumfix module alone was not enough. I haven't done any further testing to see exactly what does what.
Cheers
Re: Ultralite AVB
Just wanted to share some related motu stories.
I got the 1248, initially flashed with firmware v1.3.5+1434 (Release Date 2019-05-13) and had very frequent bitcrusher effect issues on arch linux, non RT kernel, AMD ryzen with some very modern chipset, and only USB3 ports available. I tried a handful of the tweaks suggested in this thread and had no luck.
I've downgraded to firmware 1.2.9+1280 (according to the changelogs, there are some USB tweaks between this version and my initial version) and it seems to have cleared up my issues.
This means I've lost a few UI features (touch mixer), but the interface is working. Sort of irritating that it requires any work since my babyface pro works with my machine straight out of the box, no issues, but, only MOTU has class-compliant, remotely controlled, interfaces that have the I/O I need for a new project.
I got the 1248, initially flashed with firmware v1.3.5+1434 (Release Date 2019-05-13) and had very frequent bitcrusher effect issues on arch linux, non RT kernel, AMD ryzen with some very modern chipset, and only USB3 ports available. I tried a handful of the tweaks suggested in this thread and had no luck.
I've downgraded to firmware 1.2.9+1280 (according to the changelogs, there are some USB tweaks between this version and my initial version) and it seems to have cleared up my issues.
This means I've lost a few UI features (touch mixer), but the interface is working. Sort of irritating that it requires any work since my babyface pro works with my machine straight out of the box, no issues, but, only MOTU has class-compliant, remotely controlled, interfaces that have the I/O I need for a new project.
- bluebell
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Re: Ultralite AVB
The old firmware doesn't use the implicit feedback ports in the USB protocol. This feature was neglected in the Linux kernel but finds its way into the newer kernels step by step.
Linux – MOTU UltraLite AVB – Qtractor – http://suedwestlicht.saar.de/
Re: Ultralite AVB
Hi,
I installed kernel 5.8.11 with the drumfix fix from here viewtopic.php?p=122814#p122814
Ultralight AVB (with new chip) firmware 1.3.5+637
So far everything is working nicely (except for the fact that I now get an error on boot about some network card driver, although the network card does work, before with kernel 5.4.X (ubuntu 20.04) this did not happen). THANKS a lot!
When do problems usually start?
Is there a way to access the mixer when the interface is just plugged into usb? (This is possible under windows)
I installed kernel 5.8.11 with the drumfix fix from here viewtopic.php?p=122814#p122814
Ultralight AVB (with new chip) firmware 1.3.5+637
So far everything is working nicely (except for the fact that I now get an error on boot about some network card driver, although the network card does work, before with kernel 5.4.X (ubuntu 20.04) this did not happen). THANKS a lot!
When do problems usually start?
Is there a way to access the mixer when the interface is just plugged into usb? (This is possible under windows)
Last edited by cinhcet on Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- bluebell
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Re: Ultralite AVB
The UltraLite AVB's mixer is accessible via web browser. I guess on Windows and Mac they use ip-over-USB. I don't know if and how this works with Linux. Plug your UltraLite AVB's ethernet interface in and see on your router which ip address it gets. Then use http:// with that address.cinhcet wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:59 pm Hi,
I installed kernel 5.8.11 with the drumfix fix from here viewtopic.php?p=122814#p122814
Ultralight AVB (with new chip) firmware 1.3.5+637
So far everything is working nicely (except for the fact that I now get an error on boot about some network card driver, although the network card does work, before with kernel 5.4.X (ubuntu 20.04) this did not happen). THANKS a lot!
When do problems usually start?
Is there a way to access the mixer when the interface is just plugged into usb? (This is possible under windows)
I configured my router to assign a fixed ip address based on the UltraLite AVB's mac address.
Linux – MOTU UltraLite AVB – Qtractor – http://suedwestlicht.saar.de/
Re: Ultralite AVB
Yes, it works if I wire an ethernet connection to the Ultralight AVB.bluebell wrote: ↑Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:47 pm The UltraLite AVB's mixer is accessible via web browser. I guess on Windows and Mac they use ip-over-USB. I don't know if and how this works with Linux. Plug your UltraLite AVB's ethernet interface in and see on your router which ip address it gets. Then use http:// with that address.
I configured my router to assign a fixed ip address based on the UltraLite AVB's mac address.
I was hoping not having to do that in my current setup.
On windows they definitively seem to use ip over USB, since you can point your browser to an ip address and the mixer will open.
There is the usbnet driver under linux, not sure if that will help here.
I guess I have to live with that additional cable.
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Re: Ultralite AVB
I have two Ultralite AVBs and if I want to stack them to use both in aggregated mode (AVB) I have to use a dedicated AVB switch to be able to browse to the web gui. So not having ip over USB is a huge deal in Linux.cinhcet wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:24 amYes, it works if I wire an ethernet connection to the Ultralight AVB.bluebell wrote: ↑Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:47 pm The UltraLite AVB's mixer is accessible via web browser. I guess on Windows and Mac they use ip-over-USB. I don't know if and how this works with Linux. Plug your UltraLite AVB's ethernet interface in and see on your router which ip address it gets. Then use http:// with that address.
I configured my router to assign a fixed ip address based on the UltraLite AVB's mac address.
I was hoping not having to do that in my current setup.
On windows they definitively seem to use ip over USB, since you can point your browser to an ip address and the mixer will open.
There is the usbnet driver under linux, not sure if that will help here.
I guess I have to live with that additional cable.
- bluebell
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Re: Ultralite AVB
There is a package usbip at least in the Ubuntu standard repos. But I didn't feel like fiddling around with it. At the first glance it seems to be a pain in the ass. But once it's configured and automated, who knows, maybe it works fine.ahellquist wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:31 am I have two Ultralite AVBs and if I want to stack them to use both in aggregated mode (AVB) I have to use a dedicated AVB switch to be able to browse to the web gui. So not having ip over USB is a huge deal in Linux.
Linux – MOTU UltraLite AVB – Qtractor – http://suedwestlicht.saar.de/
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Re: Ultralite AVB
Update from my side: I decided to switch to an old macbook running jack, only connected to network and my Ultralite. Never looked back since then, no single problem.
Thank's for all your work, maybe sometime i can switch back to linux. I really hope so.
Thank's for all your work, maybe sometime i can switch back to linux. I really hope so.
Re: Ultralite AVB
I'm not sure if the AVB hardware is actually using IP-over-USB. When I started doing a bit of analysis on the protocol a while back, it seemed like it was just stuffing HTTP responses/requests into USB bulk packets with some request identifiers that I couldn't figure out.
Might need a special driver as well.
Might need a special driver as well.
Re: Ultralite AVB
I've been following this thread because I'm looking for a new USB Audio Interface. I currently use a hardware mixer (Mackie 802vlz4, which I love) with a H2 Miyo (discontinued product by a defunct company, basically a tiny DAC/ADC that uses micro-usb to connect to the computer and 3.5mm jacks for the line in and out. But I'm looking for an audio interface because:
But of course I'm concerned about compatibility having read the whole thread above. Dropping a cool $800USD after shipping and taxes is a lot for a device that doesn't work properly.
I noticed that there is a new USB audio patch incoming to the 5.11 kernel that seems to both address implicit feedback mode in general, and the Motu M-Series devices in the specific. Is there a chance of this improving things for the Motu Ultralite and the AVB Motu 624 AVB? In any case, how would those changes affect the Ultralite AVB specific patches above? Do they complement eachother or do the new kernel changes supersede them?
The patchset can be found here: https://lore.kernel.org/alsa-devel/2020 ... i@suse.de/
Also, it looks like a Dylan Robinson from Motu has worked on those, so maybe he would be interested in helping us out.
I'm wondering if there's anything I/we can do to further improve the state of the Ultralite AVB for Linux. I'd really like to use it, and it's a real shame it's not supported.
- I want to record and mix optical s/pdif audio
- I am sick of the extra cabling that the split devices induces
- the H2 Miyo line input is crackling and seems to be on its way out
But of course I'm concerned about compatibility having read the whole thread above. Dropping a cool $800USD after shipping and taxes is a lot for a device that doesn't work properly.
I noticed that there is a new USB audio patch incoming to the 5.11 kernel that seems to both address implicit feedback mode in general, and the Motu M-Series devices in the specific. Is there a chance of this improving things for the Motu Ultralite and the AVB Motu 624 AVB? In any case, how would those changes affect the Ultralite AVB specific patches above? Do they complement eachother or do the new kernel changes supersede them?
The patchset can be found here: https://lore.kernel.org/alsa-devel/2020 ... i@suse.de/
Also, it looks like a Dylan Robinson from Motu has worked on those, so maybe he would be interested in helping us out.
I'm wondering if there's anything I/we can do to further improve the state of the Ultralite AVB for Linux. I'd really like to use it, and it's a real shame it's not supported.
Last edited by xthechar on Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
- bluebell
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Re: Ultralite AVB
I have an older UltraLite AVB with the most recent firmware, use kernel 5.8.6 with Drumfix' patch and don't have only problems (crackling, strange mono output) when I don't wait until the interface is booted before I start jackd.
Of course I'd be happy seeing support for those great interfaces in the mainstream kernel.
Of course I'd be happy seeing support for those great interfaces in the mainstream kernel.
Linux – MOTU UltraLite AVB – Qtractor – http://suedwestlicht.saar.de/
Re: Ultralite AVB
Linus pulled from this patchset a few days ago, and, as such, these patches are in linux-next right now. On a whim, I built a linux-next kernel and tried it out.xthechar wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:49 am I noticed that there is a new USB audio patch incoming to the 5.11 kernel that seems to both address implicit feedback mode in general, and the Motu M-Series devices in the specific. Is there a chance of this improving things for the Motu Ultralite and the AVB Motu 624 AVB? In any case, how would those changes affect the Ultralite AVB specific patches above? Do they complement eachother or do the new kernel changes supersede them?
The patchset can be found here: https://lore.kernel.org/alsa-devel/2020 ... i@suse.de/
I have a MOTU 828es connected over USB, and, after booting (or turning on the unit, or modprobing "snd_usb_audio", whichever happened most recently), JACK will fail to start once, citing issues negotiating the capture channel, but after that, I can start JACK fine and the operation is flawless. Running with "-n 3 -p 1024" and working on an extremely heavy project in Bitwig (it's stressing my 3900X to the point of dropouts) and yet there are no audio issues. No channel hopping, no distortion, no buzzing. Has been approximately 3 hours of CPU-heavy work on this project.
Of note is that I was never able to get interface running stably before, even with the Drumfix patches.
However, I left the project to export and then opened the resulting WAV file in Audacity, and promptly had severe distortion and channel hopping. Interestingly, I had noticed abnormal behaviour when using Audacity with my other audio interface (RME Babyface Pro), but in that situation the interface was evidently able to recover. This may be an issue on my machine, nonetheless I may reach out to Takashi to see if we can figure out what's going on.
This is stock linux-next, no Drumfix patches. Extremely promising.
Happy to test changing the JACK sample rate or block size as well, if anybody can tell me know to do it. I always run from the commandline rather than over dbus, so I couldn't figure it out!
For the time being, I'm going to leave it running overnight, just playing a song on loop with mpv. Will report back in the morning.
-w