Ultralite AVB

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Musinux
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Post by Musinux »

Seems I didn't use vendor mode the right way:
My device didn't accept the curl USB2 command for some reason. Curl -o always returned UAC.
Powercycling the interface let me set USB2 again.
I could use the device with the module loaded with vendor=1 in that constellation with no problems, though?

After setting USB2, I had to increase the channel count to from 24 to 32@88.2k, else it would either pitch shift or distort.


Everything works without problems since a few hours, even hwlatdetect doesn't channel hop anymore.
shellwalker
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Post by shellwalker »

Drumfix wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 6:58 am Thanks for the pointer. So the alsa devs change to formats inside usbaudio.h and midi.h whenever they want. It's a shame that these include files are not in the include directory (and therefor would be available in the kernel headers). So apparently we have to copy them over from the kernel we want to compile against <kernel.src>/sound/usb to our driver. :roll:

And if you want to use vendor mode, don't forget the curl command.
Thanks Drumfix. I've added a quick fix for this header-file copying to your makefile:
https://github.com/shellwalker-coder/motu-avb-usb
If you like that, should I submit a pull-request?

I've recompiled and re-tested accordingly. This time there are no errors on dmesg, but playback is not correct either. It appears that playback is too slow (the current position in Ardour is moving only very slowly and maybe not even at uniform speed [not so sure about the last observation though...]).
I'm using Ubuntu kernel linux-hwe-5.8-5.8.0 (corresponds to mainline 5.8.18).

What am I doing wrong?

MOTU 828mk3, MOTU 828ES, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Kubuntu 22.04.1 LTS, https://github.com/shellwalker-coder/motu_patch_testing

Drumfix
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Post by Drumfix »

shellwalker wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 12:35 pm What am I doing wrong?
Maybe the channel count of from/to computer in the web gui is set to a value <= 32. In this situation the Motu is using a "low bandwiidth" mode where it transfers only 32 instead of 64 channels at 44,1/48kHz. The driver doesn't know about that (yet).
shellwalker wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 12:35 pm If you like that, should I submit a pull-request?
Sure, pull requests are always welcome. Btw, in order not to clutter linuxmusicians anymore it would be better to discuss driver issues b< opening an the issue item on github.
martibs
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Post by martibs »

I sent an email to MOTU asking if they were aware of any issues in regards to channel drifting on the 828es over USB 2.0 connections, and they said that they were not aware. Has anyone been in contact with MOTU support regarding this issue? @shellwalker?

They also could not give any guarantee that the device would work on Linux, as it is not officially supported, of course.
ahellquist
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Post by ahellquist »

martibs wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 2:16 pm I sent an email to MOTU asking if they were aware of any issues in regards to channel drifting on the 828es over USB 2.0 connections, and they said that they were not aware. Has anyone been in contact with MOTU support regarding this issue? @shellwalker?

They also could not give any guarantee that the device would work on Linux, as it is not officially supported, of course.
They have been notified several times about the issues with linux and their firmware as well as a pointer to this thread..

This is the response to a long description of the summary of my understanding of the problems..

This response was made Feb 2021

"Thanks for the response and feedback. We really like the Linux community and want to flesh out support in the future for Linux-based systems, so your feedback is more than welcome here - all feedback is :) I'll pass this to our team for sure. "




Also in 2019, I got this response to my complaint made in june 2018 on the then recent firmware releases that broke linux CC compability..

"Aug 2019

"Thanks for reaching out. We're aware of this issue and do apologize. As far as we know, it's only specific to non-Mac/Windows class compliant mode. For instance, Linux will show this issue almost immediately.

That being said, I hope to see this fixed soon. I just don't know of an exact time frame. It's in line. That's about all I can say. "


So, which of these statements are true, you think ?
  • They know of the problems but doesn't care at all..
  • Their customer support have no impact on the rest of the business
  • They are telling us all just BS
Personally I think: All above
shellwalker
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Post by shellwalker »

martibs wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 2:16 pm I sent an email to MOTU asking if they were aware of any issues in regards to channel drifting on the 828es over USB 2.0 connections, and they said that they were not aware. Has anyone been in contact with MOTU support regarding this issue? @shellwalker?

They also could not give any guarantee that the device would work on Linux, as it is not officially supported, of course.
No, I personally have not contacted MOTU, since a number of other people on this thread have already done so, with no outcome. But to be more specific, I don't know whether anyone of them reported 828ES specifically (or just the Ultralite AVB). So maybe it's worth trying. Could you perhaps take care of that @martibs ?

MOTU 828mk3, MOTU 828ES, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Kubuntu 22.04.1 LTS, https://github.com/shellwalker-coder/motu_patch_testing

shellwalker
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Post by shellwalker »

Drumfix wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 1:18 pm
shellwalker wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 12:35 pm What am I doing wrong?
Maybe the channel count of from/to computer in the web gui is set to a value <= 32. In this situation the Motu is using a "low bandwiidth" mode where it transfers only 32 instead of 64 channels at 44,1/48kHz. The driver doesn't know about that (yet).
shellwalker wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 12:35 pm If you like that, should I submit a pull-request?
Sure, pull requests are always welcome. Btw, in order not to clutter linuxmusicians anymore it would be better to discuss driver issues b< opening an the issue item on github.
@Drumfix, thanks for the hint. I finally found time to make a new try at it.
This is what I found:
1. I was not able to set the value of MaxUsbToHost using the curl command. I had to to set the _actual_ number of to/from USB channels in the MOTU mixer matrix GUI itself. Maybe that is what you meant in the first place?

2. Audio kinda (!) worked this time. Running Ardour over about 5 minutes showed no channel drifting.
BUT: I was intermittently experiencing distortion similar to what I usually would hear just before distortion occurred in other cases. So, what puzzle piece am I missing?

3. I saw somewhere in the thread that one has to set the number of channels according to the quirk selected. I have no idea on how/where to do this. Could you please explain? Is that even still applicable at all?

Once things are working reliably and reproducably for me, I'd like to update the wiki with instructions on how to apply this method, so others can follow easily.

MOTU 828mk3, MOTU 828ES, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Kubuntu 22.04.1 LTS, https://github.com/shellwalker-coder/motu_patch_testing

Musinux
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Post by Musinux »

@shellwalker:
For me it did work when I:
- Set channel count via curl (check with curl -o if it really was written)
- Set channel count via jack/qjackctl
- Set channel count in the routing web gui (else, low bandwidth mode?)
- Used 32 channels instead of 24

When restarting jack in quick succession, I get a "little" distortion sometimes, restarting solves it.
Also, for some reason I have to restart jack after resuming from standby.
For me it seems to be working otherwise, no channel hopping.
shellwalker
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Post by shellwalker »

Musinux wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 6:43 am @shellwalker:
For me it did work when I:
- Set channel count via curl (check with curl -o if it really was written)
- Set channel count via jack/qjackctl
- Set channel count in the routing web gui (else, low bandwidth mode?)
- Used 32 channels instead of 24

When restarting jack in quick succession, I get a "little" distortion sometimes, restarting solves it.
Also, for some reason I have to restart jack after resuming from standby.
For me it seems to be working otherwise, no channel hopping.
@Musinux : thanks for your feedback. Just to be sure, how does your curl command look like?
Since you seem to have a stable setup, would you mind writing a step-by-step guide for this?

BTW: I don't use jack with Ardour, instead I use ALSA directly. Would/should that make a difference?

MOTU 828mk3, MOTU 828ES, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Kubuntu 22.04.1 LTS, https://github.com/shellwalker-coder/motu_patch_testing

driedstr
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Post by driedstr »

I just want to describe my current, working setup with the Ultralite AVB (without ESS chips) for the record here, as this seems to be the biggest collection of information for this combination.

Setup:
- Ultralite AVB without ESS chips
- USB class-compliant mode
- Pop!_OS w/ 5.11.* generic & 5.12.* liquorix kernels
- MOTU firmware 1.2.6+334

Behaviour:
- good audio performance: on liquorix I can get ~4ms latency at 44.1kHz and 96kHz with 0 and few x-runs respectively
- no channel drift, no "bitcrushing"
- bug: very rarely, the interface won't change sample rates, usually remaining in 192kHz and playing with audible distortion. Restarting the interface fixes the issue.
- bug: the interface always fails on the first attempt to change its sample rate and succeeds on the second. For instance, if it boots into 44.1 and you try to start jack at 48, it will fail on the first attempt, then succeed on the second. With PulseAudio this manifests as several seconds of silence when playing audio at a new sample rate.
- bug: when booting, the interface cycles through all available sample rates a few times before settling on one.

The bugs are minor annoyances in the context of a pro-audio setup, but cause considerably more friction when trying to use the interface for everyday use, where switching between 44.1 and 48 is much more frequent. But, the bugs are consistent and easy enough to work around and the affordances of the interface make the hassle worth it.
Last edited by driedstr on Mon May 24, 2021 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bluebell
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Post by bluebell »

driedstr wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 3:47 pm I just want to describe my current, working setup with the Ultralite AVB (with ESS chips) for the record here, as this seems to be the biggest collection of information for this combination.

Setup:
- Ultralite AVB with ESS chips
- USB class-compliant mode
- Pop!_OS w/ 5.11.* generic & 5.12.* liquorix kernels
- MOTU firmware 1.2.6+334
Are your sure with the firmware version? I thought that the newer UltraLite AVB's with ESS chips cannot use the older firmware (up to 1.3.4+558) which doesn't use implicit feedback in the USB protocol.

Linux – MOTU UltraLite AVB – Qtractor – http://suedwestlicht.saar.de/

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Re: Ultralite AVB

Post by driedstr »

bluebell wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 7:31 pm Are your sure with the firmware version? I thought that the newer UltraLite AVB's with ESS chips cannot use the older firmware (up to 1.3.4+558) which doesn't use implicit feedback in the USB protocol.
Oh sorry, my mistake, I am using that firmware but it turns out not to be the ESS model. :oops: I'll edit my post.
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Post by bluebell »

driedstr wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 8:18 pm
bluebell wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 7:31 pm Are your sure with the firmware version? I thought that the newer UltraLite AVB's with ESS chips cannot use the older firmware (up to 1.3.4+558) which doesn't use implicit feedback in the USB protocol.
Oh sorry, my mistake, I am using that firmware but it turns out not to be the ESS model. :oops: I'll edit my post.
Is there someone with an newer UltraLite AVB (with ESS chips) who can report how it works?

Linux – MOTU UltraLite AVB – Qtractor – http://suedwestlicht.saar.de/

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bluebell
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Post by bluebell »

driedstr wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 8:18 pm
bluebell wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 7:31 pm Are your sure with the firmware version? I thought that the newer UltraLite AVB's with ESS chips cannot use the older firmware (up to 1.3.4+558) which doesn't use implicit feedback in the USB protocol.
Oh sorry, my mistake, I am using that firmware but it turns out not to be the ESS model. :oops: I'll edit my post.
The older one works with the most recent firmware (1.3.5+626), kernel 5.8.6 and Drumfix' driver in Class Compliant mode flawlessly with my computer.

viewtopic.php?p=122814#p122814

Linux – MOTU UltraLite AVB – Qtractor – http://suedwestlicht.saar.de/

driedstr
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Post by driedstr »

bluebell wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 9:15 pm The older one works with the most recent firmware (1.3.5+626), kernel 5.8.6 and Drumfix' driver in Class Compliant mode flawlessly with my computer.
Thanks for mentioning that. Looks like the driver fixes the sample rate though, which is a deal-breaker for me
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