Ultralite AVB

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Be.
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Postby Be. » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:03 pm

I use a high quality USB cable (Chroma Cable from DJTechTools), so I don't think that's a problem. I've also had the same issue with the USB cable that was shipped with the Ultralite AVB.

Musinux
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Postby Musinux » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:06 pm

Do you use alsa or jack?
There is ltcgen for alsa instead of jltcgen.
I'm using it with the -r switch by now, which does compensate drift of the timecode.
I don't know if it makes a difference, but adjusting doesn't do damage like cracking.

I use a sample rate of 44100Hz btw.


The fact that it get's at least better using ltc makes me hope that MOTU can fix this with an update.
The Interface doesn't care if jltcgen or jack starts/stops (which makes a crack otherwise).

I researched so much about this beforehand, how can it be that nobody on youtube i.e. mentions some of our issues?
Should we compare S/Ns ?

Btw, may I ask if you already performed with this and what horrors came upon you if so?

Edit:
This thing is ridiculous. I tried LTC (without source) on my first day with this interface and it didn't output anything.
I just powered it off and on without running ltcgen or jack, and it just starts playing after setting the sample rate correctly (was 192kHz).
Maybe you have to "unlock" stand-alone single crack free mode with running ltcgen for a while.
I wonder if this causes timing problems after some time.

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Be.
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Postby Be. » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:11 pm

Musinux wrote:Btw, may I ask if you already performed with this and what horrors came upon you if so?


I've only performed with it twice. One of those this crackling happened. I thought it was an issue with a loose analog cable or something. After it kept happening at home I realized it was a problem with the Ultralite AVB. So I've kept my RME Babyface Pro around even though it doesn't have as much I/O as I would like and RME's support was rude to me when I asked for a way to toggle mono/stereo direct monitoring on the device without their proprietary control panel program.

Hopefully using LTC can work around this and/or MOTU can solve the issue. If not, I may end up getting an Arturia AudioFuse, although reviews say that it has a problem with heat (as in it gets uncomfortable to manipulate the controls on the device).

I am curious whether you can get the crackling to happen using the Ultralite AVB as a stand-alone DA converter without connecting it to Linux. There may be some quirk about how Linux's snd-usb-audio driver and the Ultralite AVB's clocks interact that causes the crackling (although I doubt this because Linux works fine with most USB Audio Class compliant audio interfaces). If you can reproduce it without connecting it to Linux then the problem is definitely in the Ultralite AVB.

Musinux
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Postby Musinux » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:39 am

Be. wrote:I am curious whether you can get the crackling to happen using the Ultralite AVB as a stand-alone DA converter without connecting it to Linux.


Well, it was plugged into USB since day one and while booting up, it shows

Code: Select all

usb 5-1: clock source 1 is not valid, cannot use
which makes a single crack, influencing the interface or its timing probably.
So thinking about it, I never used it without "connecting" it to linux BUT it (bitcrushcrackling) happend while I wasn't using the USB-Connection.

You wrote that it happens when you get xruns, I experienced it without xruns (since it happend while not using the USB-connection).

Maybe OT, but I had xruns lately which I had not before and I couldn't sort out until I deactivated "ForceFullCompositionPipeline" in my xorg.conf (I'm using Arch). I've played around with priorities and stuff without success. This also helped vivaldi performance.

That said, I didn't get the crackling since I use LTC and edited xorg.conf. The single crack is there sometimes,
Ulrich wrote:As I wrote, ALSA makes it weird... If you don't want to relaunch JACK several times, you can wait for ALSA to mess up you sample rate, apply the sound card configuration through the web interface, wait for the sound card to apply it then launch JACK. Less frustrating imo.

I wonder if you can show us your usecase and if you had the crackling too.

If there's a way to reproduce it, I'll test.

dsreyes1014
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Postby dsreyes1014 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:23 am

I'm running on the latest beta firmware with the touch tab and I don't get the problems you're describing. I have had issues with when first selecting the card and using ardour it xruns like crazy. I have to sometimes unplug/plug usb back in.

Musinux
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Postby Musinux » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:37 am

dsreyes1014 wrote:I'm running on the latest beta firmware with the touch tab and I don't get the problems you're describing. I have had issues with when first selecting the card and using ardour it xruns like crazy. I have to sometimes unplug/plug usb back in.


Thanks for sharing your experience. Maybe there's something wrong with my setup...

So you don't even have the single crack issue when changing i.e. sample rates ? Maybe this doesn't affect the main outs?

Or do you have to unplug/plug USB and then it's fine?

I'd have tried the beta firmware, but I can't find a changelog for it.

I just found this:
http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=63375&start=15#p548304
Seems like MOTU knows about it and it's a "chipsets problem".

I'll try with a second machine and report if it doesn't do strange things.

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Be.
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Postby Be. » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:43 pm

Musinux wrote:I just found this:
http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=63375&start=15#p548304
Seems like MOTU knows about it and it's a "chipsets problem".

I'll try with a second machine and report if it doesn't do strange things.


That thread seems to be discussing a different problem. Using more or less USB devices does not seem to have any effect on this issue. I had the same issue on my old Lenovo Z570 laptop from 2011, which was before the chipset discussed in that thread was made, and the issue persists with my new Lenovo Yoga 920 laptop from 2017.

I might get a Toslink cable just to connect my Babyface Pro to the Ultralite AVB and use the Ultralite AVB as a stand-alone DA converter to test whether the issue has to do with the USB connection.

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Be.
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Postby Be. » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:50 pm

FWIW MOTU support said they're looking into the issue with their developers. In the meantime I have set up QJackCtl to start jltcgen automatically after I start JACK. Fortunately the Ultralite AVB automatically synchronizes to the LTC clock when it is set up on the same channel without having to go back to the Ultralite AVB's web interface every time I plug it in.

dsreyes1014
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Postby dsreyes1014 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:51 pm

Thanks for sharing your experience. Maybe there's something wrong with my setup...

So you don't even have the single crack issue when changing i.e. sample rates ? Maybe this doesn't affect the main outs?

Or do you have to unplug/plug USB and then it's fine?


I've never heard any cracking really but I've never paid attention for this either. Sometimes I find that I have to unplug/plug USB to get what it seems like some sort of syncronization.

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Be.
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Postby Be. » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:14 pm

I just heard the crackling again when using LTC :(

dsreyes1014
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Postby dsreyes1014 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:04 pm

Be. wrote:I just heard the crackling again when using LTC :(


Is it something that happens every so often or is it just random?

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Be.
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Postby Be. » Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:43 pm

The crackling happens sometimes when there is an XRUN, but most XRUNs do not start the crackling.

alcomatt
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Postby alcomatt » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:00 pm

Has any of you manged to get a decent performance with jack2? I keep on having xruns all over the place, regardless what I do. With Jack1 however, the performance is solid and I can 0 xruns with buffer sizes down to 64. I would have moved back to jack1 but sadly Bitwig only supports jack2 and now I am in a right kerfuffle... this catch-22 situation drives me mad

Musinux
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Postby Musinux » Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:31 pm

alcomatt wrote:Has any of you manged to get a decent performance with jack2?

Nope.
Jack2 is a nightmare regarding xruns with this card, I even tried using rt-kernel instead of ck (and many other things) without success.
Like you, Jack1 runs supersmooth here without xruns.

Be. wrote:I just heard the crackling again when using LTC :(

I've experienced it as well :cry: .

Just to have it written somewhere:

I've tried beta firmware 1.3.4+577. I switched back to 1.3.2+520 pretty quick, because of major problems with jack(1 and 2).

I just don't do any processing right now, and I "just" get the occassional crack when starting/stopping media.

alcomatt
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Re: Ultralite AVB

Postby alcomatt » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:19 pm

I've experienced it as well :cry: .

Just to have it written somewhere:

I've tried beta firmware 1.3.4+577. I switched back to 1.3.2+520 pretty quick, because of major problems with jack(1 and 2).

I just don't do any processing right now, and I "just" get the occassional crack when starting/stopping media.


I may have a solution to this but not 100% sure yet. I have been checking my kernel logs and I kept on seeing the below error reported from the device:

Code: Select all

usb 3-4: clock source 1 is not valid, cannot use


This lead me to http://guillaumeplayground.net/teac-ud- ... mment-8186 and it looks like it is worth a shot. I will try writing a quirks options for MOTU hardware IDs and see if it makes a difference. I am quite busy right now so it might take me a while. If any of you are experienced in C then you're more than welcome to try


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