Best soundcard with 4-5 microphone inputs for Linux DAW

[Cymurai2000]

I currently use Ardour in Ubuntu Studio. I also currently use a soundblaster audigy card and I want to upgrade.

I want to start recording a podcast and need to have the best hardware solution to record 4 to 5 mic's at the same time in the same physical location. I know there are soundcards that can do this and have looked through the alsa matrix list that the Ardour site provides, but some of the solutions they give are outdated, especially the m-audio stuff. The microphones I might want to use are either the shure SM57 or SM58 or an xlr condensor mic or both. Will the sound cards give the "phantom power" needed for condenser mics? With Ardour and Jack, is it viable to output the sound from the mic to the headphones to monitor myself as I am speaking (so I don't always speak loud when the headphones are on)? I've done a little research and I've found that cards that advertise "hardware monitoring" should be able to this but I am still not sure what particular card to get. Do these "hardware monitoring" cards allow multiple mics and people to all monitor themselves at the same time?

I've been leaning towards getting something from RME as the equipment they make works well in LInux, but I am still confused on what to get. I was thinking of getting an RME HDSP 9632, but the guy in the forums stated that even with the proper breakout cables that you purchase separately that have XLR input jacks, you would need a separate MIC preamp because the input jacks on the breakout cables are not MIC inputs and are "balanced".

I want to find solution that can pick up 4 to 5 XLR mics all at the same time and give each mic a separate channel in a DAW like Ardour. I want to have the ability to edit each individual track for the show. From what I have seen so far, anything more than 2 mics at the same time is going to problematic. Why is something so simple as recording 5 mics all at the same time such a problem to bring into a computer?

Thank you for your help.

[tatch]

you can get a focusrite scarlett 18i20 or a presonus audiobox 1818vsl working on linux with little hassle. they both have built-in preamps but people say focusrite's are better.

[Cymurai2000]

Are there any good internal card solutions to this multi-mic problem? I know RME cards always worked with Linux, but they seem expensive and require a lot of external boxes that connect to that card anyways. I thought I was going to be able to use RME HDSP9632 with a few breakout cables, but the customer service person told me that those breakout cables are only for line in that I would need a mic preamp if I wanted to connect mics via a breakout cable. I would need a separate mic preamp box that would connect to that card via an optical cable which is even more expensive and has 8 jacks, way more than I need. I have looked into both the presonus and focusrite solutions and them seem good to work with on a laptop, because they are external USB solutions. I always figured an internal sound card would record at a higher quality than an external USB device, but I may be wrong.

Are there any internal sound cards that can take 4 mic inputs at the same time without needing separate mic preamp? I know a solution like this may need an external box that connects to the sound card, but I don't care about that. I am looking for a solution that works in linux and is cheaper than the RME cards. Maybe this solution does not exist, I don't know. I have been looking though. It seems like any internal card that m-audio made are all discontinued, which lead me to this forum.

Thank you all for your help. It is all greatly appreciated.

[tatch]

i may be wrong, but from what i understand the sound quality of external soundcards is not inherently inferior to internal cards. sound quality is determined by the preamps and the adcs/dacs in the soundcard, which is decoupled from the interface format (pcie vs usb/thunderbolt etc). the main difference between internal and external cards is the bus bandwidth. it used to be that pci/pci-e had superior bandwidth but for a while now, even since usb2, external buses have been more than adequate for most audio purposes.

[asbak]

I always figured an internal sound card would record at a higher quality than an external USB device, but I may be wrong.

There isn't an audio quality difference depending on what interface one uses but whether a USB interface will provide for troublefree operation is another matter which again depends on all kinds of factors. The same could be said (to a lesser extent) for PCI interfaces.

A Behringer ADA8000 / 8200 or Focusrite Octopre or similar provides mic preamps and can be connected to the 9632 over ADAT. Behringer ADA 8000's are going for relatively cheap and should be more than good enough for typical mic applications unless you're recording world renowned acoustic musicians or singers or something... in which case you'd probably want something a bit better.

Are there any internal sound cards that can take 4 mic inputs at the same time without needing separate mic preamp? I know a solution like this may need an external box that connects to the sound card, but I don't care about that. I am looking for a solution that works in linux and is cheaper than the RME cards. Maybe this solution does not exist, I don't know. I have been looking though. It seems like any internal card that m-audio made are all discontinued, which lead me to this forum.

Thank you all for your help. It is all greatly appreciated.

No idea if there are such soundcards which have mic pre-amps.

RME 9632 and 9652 can be had s/h for relatively little money if you hunt around. Just hook up an ADA 8000 and you should be in business. (Obviously do research to confirm this).
Bear in mind that the HDSP 9632 and 9652 are PCI cards so be sure that your motherboard has a suitably fast PCI slot. RME HDSPe AIO is PCI-Express but will cost a lot more. (And research whether or not it'll work under Linux).

Behringer ADA 8000
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun04/a ... gerada.htm

There are better and more expensive pre-amp AD/DA converters out there, that's an example of the cheapest available option.

[Cymurai2000]

Thank you Sooo much to both of you, tatch and asbak! As I was researching what items to buy, I saw that Behringer ADA8000 preamp on amazon.com and wondered if it would work with the 9632 because I caught that it was an ADAT standard. Thank you for confirming my suspicions! I was thinking that I could only use RME preamps with that soundcard, but I thought wrong and I am glad I was wrong. I think I might use the internal RME solution for when I am home and an external usb box like the Focusrite stuff for when I am traveling and have my laptop.

[Cymurai2000]

with the Behringer ADA 8000 or ADA8200 preamps connected to that RME card, would monitoring your own mic be a problem? Can it be done by connecting your headphones straight to the preamp or would you just turn on monitoring in Ardour? I just want to know if it can be done through Ardour, is the delay going be so bad that you won't able to speak properly?

thank you for all your help again!

[asbak]

My experience with Ardour is limited but here's a Muse example with a 9652 which should be similarish to a 9632 under Linux (I hope):

Connect analog audio sources ===> the AD/DA Converter Analog Inputs
AD/DA ADAT OUT ===> RME 9652 ADAT IN

The HDSP Mixer app can be used to mix audio in the computer. Channels 25, 26 are S/PDIF. This can be sent to a DA converter and to some kind of analog monitor / mixer device.
There will be 26 Capture and Playback streams in Jack for the 9652.

So for example in Muse Sequencer (Ardour should be similar) create a bunch of Audio Inputs, Map the Jack Capture streams of the respective audio inputs (Mic 1, 2, 3, 4 etc) to the corresponding Muse Audio Inputs. There's an OUT bus to which all of the Muse Audio Inputs can send their audio. Route the OUT bus to Playback S/PDIF 25 and 26 and monitor that via speakers, headphones or whatever.

Basically, once the audio is inside the computer it can be routed in all kinds of crazy ways to whatever you want. You can add real time effects on the Muse Audio Input tracks (compression & ducking is useful for voiceovers and background music) etc.

The 9632 is a bit different in that it already has a couple of analog ins and outs if I recall correctly, so to set something like this up for a 9632 should be even easier. (No S/PDIF to analog converter needed)

I don't think there should be any discernible delay depending on how you set things up, what latency your card is set to and so on. I keep mine at around 3 - 5 ms which isn't discernible. Just be sure to sync the AD/DA and the 9632 with word clock, otherwise you'll get phasing kind of audio effects.

To achieve low-latency operation you'll need a PREEMPT or RT Kernel so if your OS or Distro doesn't already have one you'll need to install a kernel from somewhere or compile one. Mine's set to PREEMPT and 1000mHz. Jackdbus is another thing which has caused me grief and unreliable Jack operation. Since disabling it the system has been stable.