DiscoDSP's cloud

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jonetsu
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DiscoDSP's cloud

Postby jonetsu » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:05 pm

DiscoDSP is one of the few who are providing native Linux versions of their plugins. Synths like Discovery Pro and Vertigo, a sampler called Bliss. Recently I re-installed the Linux system and for some reason Discovery Pro wasn't launching. So I thought to go to the web site and see anyways if there was any newer version and if not, to simply download the same that I paid for.

Not possible. Even if one has bought the product, one must now spend $29/year to be able to re-download what they bought. Not to mention any new version.

Fortunately I found an original download on one of the backup drives, re-installed it, and it works. Not that I'm using this synth a lot, nor any other by DiscoDSP. But still.

It's a very curious business practice, to charge for a so-called "cloud subscription" so that one can re-download what he already paid for. A subscription that is said to cover all updates but then, there are scarcely any updates on a yearly basis, more like within a 2-3 years time frame. Not to mention any new products.

Just thought of mentioning this curious business practice which seems IMHO more like a shot in one's foot than anything else.

EDIT: corrected some typos.
Last edited by jonetsu on Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Linuxmusician01
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Re: DiscoDSP's cloud

Postby Linuxmusician01 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:36 am

Tanks for the warning. I'b never ever buy something from them.

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davephillips
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Re: DiscoDSP's cloud

Postby davephillips » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:31 am

Greetings !

Yet another bad idea from a company whose business model has simply put me off from even trying to upgrade my purchases. Discovery Pro is a wonderful synth, I'm happy it's available for Linux, I own it and all their other Linux products, but I don't think I'll ever buy anything from discoDSP again.

I've had no bad relationship with George - he's been pleasant to deal with - or anyone else from the company, and they are of course free to pursue any model they like.

Best,

dp

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sysrqer
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Re: DiscoDSP's cloud

Postby sysrqer » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:38 am

Is that even legal to charge again for something you have already paid for?

jonetsu
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Re: DiscoDSP's cloud

Postby jonetsu » Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:28 pm

It certainly does have an "aura" of, if not illegality, a strange business practice.

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raboof
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Re: DiscoDSP's cloud

Postby raboof » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:28 pm

sysrqer wrote:Is that even legal to charge again for something you have already paid for?

I'd say so: they fulfilled their end of the deal when you downloaded the product the first time. They're under no obligation to keep alive a service for you to download it *again*. Given they don't have an obligation to provide that service at all, I don't see why it would be illegal to provide the service for a fee.

jonetsu
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Re: DiscoDSP's cloud

Postby jonetsu » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:41 pm

They might be under no obligation to offer subsequent downloads of paid products although it could be said that in the competitive market, to feel obliged to customers can constitute a part of being distinct.

Another thing is that they delete posts and lock topics in their KVR forum section when it comes to criticize this way of doing things. Nothing unlawful there too, but the attitude is certainly not one of the finest. There's even one guy who commented on existing customers having to write to DiscoDSP when the upcoming 7.0 update will be released in order to have it for free, by asking why isn't DiscoDSP emailing the existing customers in the first place ? - And the post got deleted.

So all that is legal, but it surely smells 'funny'.

Cheers.

glowrak guy
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Re: DiscoDSP's cloud

Postby glowrak guy » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:51 am

This is probably just financial fallout settling after George's medical issues.
Which may have led to employees/contractors moving on.
And then a drop-off in product updates and new products.
He doesn't sell massive sample libraries requiring lots of bandwidth and drive space,
so the cloud subscription would appear to be spawned
by dire fiscal straights.

A few years back, I did a fiscal assessment of what it would take
for me to go broke and become homeless. My conclusion was
that bad things happening and reported in the news can get
real personal real fast, well beyond an individuals control.
I've adjusted my outlook accordingly, especially when not privvy
to personal details.

How many of us would be comfortable with our troubles
made public? Let alone bandied about in forums full of
semi-anonymous customers and critics? George has taken
a jolly good forum beating at kvr, for both the cloud, and obxd,
and mainly from people who can barely code a password.

Beyond that, I have 7 drives within arms reach, and I back up
software purchases/downloads thoroughly. If I could backup my house,
cars, and hardware, I'd do it asap.
Cheers

ufug
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Re: DiscoDSP's cloud

Postby ufug » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:52 pm

I understand the frustration with subscription models. When it's coming from a corporate parasite, it's an especially nasty way to keep customers hostage.

But when it's a tiny shop who provides Linux plugins at reasonable prices?

Sometimes I calculate in my head how much money I've saved in 13 years of using Linux. No matter how I slice it, it's a really big amount (to me anyway!). I was an Apple person, so if I was still stuck in the upgrade cycle I would have upgraded two or maybe three new machines in that time frame, many versions of ProTools, Reason, plugins, Adobe etc. I've saved many thousands of dollars thanks to Linux.

So if I see someone making a commercial Linux plugin or DAW at such a good price, I don't hesitate to support them as long as it's something I will use. People gotta eat.

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sysrqer
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Re: DiscoDSP's cloud

Postby sysrqer » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:20 pm

raboof wrote:
sysrqer wrote:Is that even legal to charge again for something you have already paid for?

I'd say so: they fulfilled their end of the deal when you downloaded the product the first time. They're under no obligation to keep alive a service for you to download it *again*. Given they don't have an obligation to provide that service at all, I don't see why it would be illegal to provide the service for a fee.

I didn't think of it like that but it makes sense.
Last edited by sysrqer on Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

jonetsu
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Re: DiscoDSP's cloud

Postby jonetsu » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:40 pm

ufug wrote: So if I see someone making a commercial Linux plugin or DAW at such a good price, I don't hesitate to support them as long as it's something I will use. People gotta eat.


How about making great new plugins ? How about adding great features ? How about making that a yearly matter ? How about not deleting remarks that questions your approach but instead handle it in a better way ? Why erase a comment that asked why the company isn't emailing their existing customers about updates and such ?

DiscoDSP caters to Windows/Mac crowds also. Their web site has in large bold letters: "Welcome to iOS". It's not an exclusive Linux offering.

This said, I must have all commercial Linux plugins ever made, or close to it. That includes Glitch2 and most of Loomer's, going by Waverazor, Biotek1 and 2, OvertoneDSP, pianoteq, Monique and B-Step, Redux, u-he, and all of DiscoDSP. And Mixbus32C (and all Harrison plugins) and Bitwig. Those were the days without linvst. Did I say captive market ?

The thing with DiscoDSP's so-called "cloud" is that there's not much of an output record. If we compare with another subscription model, Bitwig (and not comparing the size of the workforce), Bitwig delivers in a constant manner. They have a proven record. Yes, George 'disappeared' for a while. Then after coming back last year, he recently got beaten or something and someone else is handling the PR.

There can be difficult times. For everyone. And there can be good times, also for everyone.

I would totally support a Vertigo update that brings its UI into the current century so to speak. I would support any project of development if I'm interested in it. And if the promise looks serious enough.

But the $29/year subscription for not so much on record is IMHO not the best strategy to adopt when trying to get the company moving in sales/popularity. It's already quite difficult for a feature-full project like Bitwig with a good record of updates (hundreds of bad comments on KVR - none erased) and a team to absorb the impact, imagine how it can be detrimental to a very small company w/o that much on record and with perhaps one guy in charge who hires a developer now and then.


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