Good orchestral soundfont and sampler?

Link to good samples/soundfonts at http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/free_audio_data

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foul_owl
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Good orchestral soundfont and sampler?

Post by foul_owl »

I have been searching for a good orchestral soundfont and a sampler that works with it.

I've looked at VSCO, Essential Keys, and VPO.

VPO seems to be the best of the bunch, but unfortunately does not loop correctly with Carla.

I've been using sfizz as the sampler for VPO, but I'm getting a lot of crackling and popping sounds, and unfortunately sfizz doesn't seem to use volume CC. (Which Carla does)

I've tried BBC SO Discover, which works great in carla / wine, but the problem there is the free version has no "short" strings samples. (Besides pizzicato)

Linux Sampler simply doesn't work at all. There is no plugin gui, I tried using qsampler and got no sound, and it crashes when trying to load certain soundfonts.

I've tried both sforzando and aria player in carla/wine, but unfortunately the GUI does not seem to render correctly. (What is the difference between these also? Are they the same product?)

So it looks like my options are:

1. Find a patch for sfizz that supports volume CC and use with VPO. (And also resolve the clicking / popping issues)

2. Try and get either sforzando or aria player working in carla / wine, and use with VPO.

3. Purchase the full version of the BBC SO to access the short string sounds.

What's the best way forward here? Any other options?
j_e_f_f_g
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Re: Good orchestral soundfont and sampler?

Post by j_e_f_f_g »

What sample rate are you using? The majority of VPO's instruments come from the "No Budget Orchestra". (nbo_2.zip at http://www.bandshed.net/sounds/sfz) Those instruments are looped at 44.1KHz. If you're playing them back at 48KHz or 96KHz, then sfizz is probably interpolating the waves to that rate. This changes the size of the wave, which in turn changes the location of the loop points. Some players forget to adjust the loop points (or do it incorrectly) which results in clicks/pops. Check with the sfizz developer to see if he has tested playing back a looped wave at different sample rates. It could be a bug.

It's also possible for a wave's loop point to be set at a particularly troublesome spot, such that it just happens to click/pop at a different rate. But I was careful to test all the waves at both 44 and 48 KHz with both LinuxSampler and Sforzando. No clicks/pops. I didn't test with sfizz. My advice is to get LinuxSampler working, and see if it plays those loops better.

P.S. Download the No Budget Orch at the above link. VPO uses Sonatina orch's percussion, which is that library's weakest part. The samples are quite noisy and not well recorded. NBO's percussion is significantly better. I wish Paul would use the latter.

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tavasti
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Re: Good orchestral soundfont and sampler?

Post by tavasti »

foul_owl wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:46 pm I've tried BBC SO Discover, which works great in carla / wine, but the problem there is the free version has no "short" strings samples. (Besides pizzicato)
I have had problems spitfile installer, could not even install free stuff from them, but apparently works for you?
foul_owl wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:46 pm I've tried both sforzando and aria player in carla/wine, but unfortunately the GUI does not seem to render correctly. (What is the difference between these also? Are they the same product?)
Aria seems to work ok for me, with winehq wine-stable.

I use Sonivox Orchestral Companion, but that does not work in linux. I decrypted samples, and created sfz from those by myself.
Affordable from pluginboutique, but like I said, not plug&play option. And for me it did not even work in windows virtual machine, but installer with iLok even made it unbootable...

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foul_owl
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Re: Good orchestral soundfont and sampler?

Post by foul_owl »

j_e_f_f_g wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:21 am What sample rate are you using? The majority of VPO's instruments come from the "No Budget Orchestra". (nbo_2.zip at http://www.bandshed.net/sounds/sfz) Those instruments are looped at 44.1KHz. If you're playing them back at 48KHz or 96KHz, then sfizz is probably interpolating the waves to that rate. This changes the size of the wave, which in turn changes the location of the loop points. Some players forget to adjust the loop points (or do it incorrectly) which results in clicks/pops. Check with the sfizz developer to see if he has tested playing back a looped wave at different sample rates. It could be a bug.

It's also possible for a wave's loop point to be set at a particularly troublesome spot, such that it just happens to click/pop at a different rate. But I was careful to test all the waves at both 44 and 48 KHz with both LinuxSampler and Sforzando. No clicks/pops. I didn't test with sfizz. My advice is to get LinuxSampler working, and see if it plays those loops better.

P.S. Download the No Budget Orch at the above link. VPO uses Sonatina orch's percussion, which is that library's weakest part. The samples are quite noisy and not well recorded. NBO's percussion is significantly better. I wish Paul would use the latter.
I'm using 44.1kHz / 24 bit int for everything, so I don't think the sample rate thing is an issue. It might just be a problem with buffer size? I have the same click / pop issue in reaper with simple wav playback if the buffer isn't large enough.

I have 32 gigs of memory on my system, I wish there was a way to just load all the samples into memory and never worry about streaming from disk for any reason :mrgreen:

If I understand correctly, NBO is simply better than VPO, as it's just VPO + better percussion?

Thank you!!
foul_owl
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Re: Good orchestral soundfont and sampler?

Post by foul_owl »

tavasti wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:01 am I have had problems spitfile installer, could not even install free stuff from them, but apparently works for you?
Yes! I'm on Debian 10, wine is installed from the repos. Spitfire works with no issues whatsoever, not even a graphical glitch.
tavasti wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:01 am Aria seems to work ok for me, with winehq wine-stable.
Ah, good to know, thank you! I will need to try that.
tavasti wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:01 am I use Sonivox Orchestral Companion, but that does not work in linux. I decrypted samples, and created sfz from those by myself.
Affordable from pluginboutique, but like I said, not plug&play option. And for me it did not even work in windows virtual machine, but installer with iLok even made it unbootable...
This is awesome! I'm not sure I have the time to take the same approach, but it's good to know about.
mirka
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Re: Good orchestral soundfont and sampler?

Post by mirka »

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lazyklimm
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Re: Good orchestral soundfont and sampler?

Post by lazyklimm »

> Linux Sampler simply doesn't work at all. There is no plugin gui, I tried using qsampler and got no sound, and it crashes when trying to load certain soundfonts.

Qsampler is a gui for linuxsampler, not a separate program. One should insert linuxsampler lv2/vst plugin, then run Qsampler to connect to it
ubuntuuser
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Re: Good orchestral soundfont and sampler?

Post by ubuntuuser »

foul_owl wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:46 pm I have been searching for a good orchestral soundfont and a sampler that works with it.

I've looked at VSCO, Essential Keys, and VPO.

VPO seems to be the best of the bunch, but unfortunately does not loop correctly with Carla.

I've been using sfizz as the sampler for VPO, but I'm getting a lot of crackling and popping sounds, and unfortunately sfizz doesn't seem to use volume CC. (Which Carla does)

I've tried BBC SO Discover, which works great in carla / wine, but the problem there is the free version has no "short" strings samples. (Besides pizzicato)

Linux Sampler simply doesn't work at all. There is no plugin gui, I tried using qsampler and got no sound, and it crashes when trying to load certain soundfonts.

I've tried both sforzando and aria player in carla/wine, but unfortunately the GUI does not seem to render correctly. (What is the difference between these also? Are they the same product?)

So it looks like my options are:

1. Find a patch for sfizz that supports volume CC and use with VPO. (And also resolve the clicking / popping issues)

2. Try and get either sforzando or aria player working in carla / wine, and use with VPO.

3. Purchase the full version of the BBC SO to access the short string sounds.

What's the best way forward here? Any other options?
About sforzando,

It used to work pretty well, but the new 1.9 version seems to want d2d1 and Wine doesn't handle d2d1 very well at the moment and that is probably causing the display problems.

Maybe an earlier version is ok.

The sforzando version 1.845 at https://freevstplugins.net/sforzando/ seems to work, for me anyway.

The 1.845 sforzando version doesn't use d2d1.
Kitosch
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Re: Good orchestral soundfont and sampler?

Post by Kitosch »

Does anyone know if the Core version of the BBC SO by Spitfire works as well as the Discover version on Linux/Wine/Carla? I'm tempted to buy it but not if it's a huge gamble or if there are major limitations or, even worse, if it's known to not work.

Thank you.
tseaver
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Re: Good orchestral soundfont and sampler?

Post by tseaver »

Does anyone know if the Core version of the BBC SO by Spitfire works as well as the Discover version on Linux/Wine/Carla? I'm tempted to buy it but not if it's a huge gamble or if there are major limitations or, even worse, if it's known to not work.
I can use Core as well as Discover: the RAM tax is understandably higher, but the samples do work (UbuntuStudio 19.10, hosting the plugin in Ardour 5.12.x).


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Kitosch
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Re: Good orchestral soundfont and sampler?

Post by Kitosch »

Thanks for the reply. That's cool. I have 32GB RAM right now. Should that be enough?

I'll try if I can get the free Discover to work (have to wait for two weeks as you know). If so, I think I'll go for the Core purchase in their December sale.
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Re: Good orchestral soundfont and sampler?

Post by tseaver »

Thanks for the reply. That's cool. I have 32GB RAM right now. Should that be enough?
Depends on how complex a template you have in mind: if you mean to split out every possible articulation onto its own track, then 32 Gb might not be enough for Core (32 Gb should be fine for Discover in that mode). If you only add tracks for articulations you are actually using, or use one track-per-instrument and keyswitching, 32 Gb is almost certainly fine: with Core, you can even purge unused articulations.
I'll try if I can get the free Discover to work (have to wait for two weeks as you know). If so, I think I'll go for the Core purchase in their December sale.
FWIW, if you buy Discover, the price will apply toward an upgrade, too.
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