How to install LinuxSampler.

[lazyklimm]

I'm glad you like the kit!

It was the most natural (well, the first one TMO) DrumGizmo kit ever.

I prefer loading a VSTi and not having to deal with a shell

What shell are you talking about? You can use LSCP directly from your shell, but it's not necessary, there are GUIs.

and then a separate thing "outside" the DAW, patching to/from it, and so on.

The only separate thing you have to use (only once) outside the DAW is a LS client (there are at least two - JSampler and QSampler). You add the plugin, you connect to it with a UI client, set it up and forget about it. Moreover, when you use an external UI for your plugin, you don't have to invent your own toolkit (hello, DG crew), support it, fix bug and all that stuff which distracts you from doing the real work.

(I also don't use any bridging, Wine, Jack, etc.: it's all native Linux for me, and all contained within the DAW. I open the DAW and in 1 second it's ready to go.)

The same for me with LS

If LinuxSampler worked at a "normal" VST

There's a VST version in KXStudio repos, if you prefer

and could do what DrumGizmo does and more

It could 8 years ago, when DrumGizmo had started and it still can.

(and also isn't as complicated to make a bank with many output channels and round robins etc.)

It's much simpler than editing DrumGizmo XMLs and more versatile

I'd give it a try. Last I checked though, that's not really how it works.

That is how it works

It's possible to build DrumGizmo with as many outputs as you like. It's just an option to add during the configuration stage of the build. Add this to the ./config line: --enable-custom-channel-count=X (where "X" is the number of outputs you want).

I don't like to build software myself

When DrumGizmo got "normal" round robin functionality, I could finally complete that kit.

You could make an SFZ instead and got a working solution many years ago.

Their approach (besides round robin) can work great , but you need a lot more velocity sample layers for it to sound natural. If you "only" have around 15 layers like I do for this kit, their "neighboring velocity layer" method of sample selection sometimes sounds weird.

That's what I was talking about for years

As for using LinuxSampler versus DrumGizmo: you can use both.

Of course I can, but my PC is not powerful enough. And I don't see what DG can do what LS can do not.

I know the temptation to reduce the number of plugins you use, but sometimes it's worth having another plugin for a specific reason.

Sometimes - yes, but it's not the case. See above.

[JamesPeters]

I didn't realize that SFZ would allow for many outputs. It may have been because I hadn't seen one with more than 2 outputs. Possibly also because documentation for SFZ and SF2 was sketchy at the time I was looking for it, and I may have conflated the two formats.

As for making a kit for LinuxSampler with multiple outputs, it did not look simple. I don't know what I must have missed but maybe I will look again. I still don't like the idea of loading anything outside the DAW though; I prefer it and all its routing contained within the DAW. So if the VST version is completely contained within the DAW, and making a kit with round robin / multi-velocity layers / directed choke functionality / multiple outputs is possible, I'd consider it. As it is: I watched a couple videos for how to set up LinuxSampler for something similar to the DrumGizmo kit I'm using, and it seems I'm not going to want to do that. If DrumGizmo didn't work for me, maybe I would though.

Just how old a computer are you running? When I use DrumGizmo with that kit, it takes a maximum 3% of my CPU of my older computer which is just an i3 6300. On my newer Ryzen it's a fraction of that.

Anyway DrumGizmo is evolving to be something more specific for drums. It is gaining functionality that makes it have a different appeal than LinuxSampler, whether that functionality is complete or not. I wouldn't begrudge the devs for wanting to create something new, either. There are reasons for it that I can imagine.

[lazyklimm]

I didn't realize that SFZ would allow for many outputs.

Not SFZ, Linuxsampler allows. But I think it's possible to use any SFZ sampler plugin for that (just load multiple instances)

Possibly also because documentation for SFZ and SF2 was sketchy at the time I was looking for it

I started using LS with SFZs (after a ~year of using it with GIG) in 2012-2013 or something, I can't say the documentation/examples were great, but good enough for me.

and I may have conflated the two formats.

They are completely different beasts

As for making a kit for LinuxSampler with multiple outputs, it did not look simple.

You insert a plugin in your DAW
run an external UI(I prefer QSampler these days)
add a channel, set an SFZ, route channel outputs to the plugin outputs
repeat for all the SFZs.
Your DAW (I tested it with Ardour only, though) will remember all LS settings after saving a project, so there's no need to run the separate LS UI anymore.

I don't know what I must have missed

More flexible MIDI dispatch, scripting, simpler file formats (manual XML editing is a pain). And not least, you could have round robins and all that stuff for many years already.

I still don't like the idea of loading anything outside the DAW though; I prefer it and all its routing contained within the DAW.

It's inside your DAW, the only thing you run outside is the control interface, which usually is a separate window anyway, so the only difference is what you click to show it.

So if the VST version is completely contained within the DAW, and making a kit with round robin / multi-velocity layers / directed choke functionality / multiple outputs is possible, I'd consider it.

It looks like it works.
I've just created a new session in Ardour, added a MIDI track with Linuxsampler VST plugin, ran QSampler, loaded a saved LSCP script, saved the session, closed Ardour and QSampler, then ran Ardour again and LS settings were the same.

As it is: I watched a couple videos for how to set up LinuxSampler for something similar to the DrumGizmo kit I'm using, and it seems I'm not going to want to do that.

I don't know what are the videos you are talking about, but for me, it's as easy to set up as DrumGizmo, maybe even easier, since its toolkit doesn't work well with tiling WMs and HiDPI screens.

Just how old a computer are you running? When I use DrumGizmo with that kit, it takes a maximum 3% of my CPU of my older computer which is just an i3 6300. On my newer Ryzen it's a fraction of that.

It's Pentium G2030 from 2013.

Anyway DrumGizmo is evolving to be something more specific for drums.

Any examples which are not possible to do in LS?

I wouldn't begrudge the devs for wanting to create something new, either. There are reasons for it that I can imagine.

Especially when you are not aware of already existing solutions :]. I think life is too short to rewrite all from scratch.

2014_01_03:117:[20:15:10] <deva> I'm not too familiar with linuxsampler

The thing is I was very empowered when DrumGizmo project had started, I thought that finally, we would get a PnP drum sampler for Linux with ready to use natural-sounding kits, so I don't have to edit SFZs manually, but since 2014 I started to become less enthusiastic, it lacked a lot of must-have (TMO) features - RT resampling, disc streaming, round robins, you name it. Instead of SFZs you had to edit XMLs and the interface was buggy. I kept watching on news, sometimes ran a new version, but they still weren't as functional as LS was.

Don't get me wrong, I don't blame devs at all, I think they are really nice guys, good devs and drummers! Maybe DrumGizmo just wasn't for me, I wanted to have a working solution, they (possibly) wanted to have fun writing something new. It's ok. But I'm disappointed a little bit (and It's mostly my personal fault), and really don't see what it can give to me.

[lazyklimm]

A couple more:

- SFZ is a de-facto standard (not as popular as Kontakt libraries, but they are not comparable).

- You can dispatch samples by CCs, so it's possible to fit all possible articulations in GM map, I don't think DG will have the feature anytime soon

[lazyklimm]

Oh, I forgot to thank you for the documentation, especially for the file/channel naming schema!

[JamesPeters]

Just so you know, I wasn't claiming that DrumGizmo does anything more than LinuxSampler. I said it has a different appeal. For me the appeal is that it is simpler than using LinuxSampler for drums. If you think setting up LinuxSampler is easier, well I will leave that to you. I understand the differences now and LinuxSampler doesn't appeal to me for drums.

I have been following DrumGizmo only for the last couple years. Prior to that it wouldn't have been feasible for me to use.

As much as you think it is worthless to make something that has similar functionality to something else, I will still disagree with you. While you are at it you can criticize innumerable plugins that provide EQ, compression, reverb and so on in Linux alone not to mention every other operating system. For that matter you can criticize countless restaurants, stores and so on. If you don't see why DrumGizmo can have its own appeal, I don't know what to tell you.

[Baggypants]

https://davidbolton.info/articles/build ... mpler.html

It's in KXstudio repos

Afaik LinuxSampler is a powerful application and much further in development then Sfizz is.

And I don't see why it should change

Best thing would be to make Linuxsampler full GPL and let the community improve the SFZ part probably.

I don't see why the commercial exception is bad. The much better (for community improvements) thing would be to put its development on Github.

We have had this discussion on here lots but it boils down to,

1) They can't change the licence, the person who wrote the code the licence pertains to appears to no-longer contribute.
2) What counts as commercial? Most linux distributions would count as commercial, projects like https://zynthian.org could be counted as commercial because they have a shop and sell things, If I ask for donations to cover hosting is that commercial? What if the author comes back with a big sue gun? What seems like a trivial addition is a potential legal minefield and as soon as your organisation becomes vaguely decent and attracted a few legal letters about this and that, you're quickly going to realise you'll want to nope right out of there. That addition makes Linuxsampler undistributiable at scale.

[lazyklimm]

For me the appeal is that it is simpler than using LinuxSampler for drums.

I think the simplicity differences are minor with these two. Compare both with x42/AVLdrums, for example.

If you think setting up LinuxSampler is easier, well I will leave that to you.

I already told you what one should do to have it working.

I understand the differences now and LinuxSampler doesn't appeal to me for drums.

I have been following DrumGizmo only for the last couple years. Prior to that it wouldn't have been feasible for me to use.

A couple of years ago (and even more) LinuxSampler already had all the stuff one could want for drums sampling and even more.

As much as you think it is worthless to make something that has similar functionality to something else

It's not about similar functionality, competition is great, having alternatives is great too. The thing is DrumGizmo team (prove me wrong) wasn't aware of those alternatives when they started the project. I've downloaded #DrumGizmo IRC logs, and there are just 29 "linuxsampler" hits (including mines).

2016_02_07:73:[15:45:34] <deva> We are still lightyears behind linuxsampler on most general-sampler features

Sorry, guys, but you are still behind LS even on drum-related sampling features

While you are at it you can criticize innumerable plugins that provide EQ, compression, reverb and so on in Linux alone not to mention every other operating system. For that matter you can criticize countless restaurants, stores and so on.

You get me absolutely wrong

If you don't see why DrumGizmo can have its own appeal, I don't know what to tell you.

AFAIR, their original idea was to make a plugin to produce natural-sounding (metal) drum tracks in Linux. With the "batteries" included. I had already been using LS at the time, but there were not so many multichannel/multilayered metal-oriented SFZ kits, so I was fascinated with that idea because it was what I really needed at the time.

I usually don't care about using multiple apps with similar functionality when they have the functionality. After all, all I need is to get things done

[lazyklimm]

1) They can't change the licence, the person who wrote the code the licence pertains to appears to no-longer contribute.

OK, what's wrong with the licence anyway

2) What counts as commercial? Most linux distributions would count as commercial, projects like https://zynthian.org could be counted as commercial because they have a shop and sell things,

see:

LinuxSampler is licensed under the GNU GPL with the exception that USAGE of the source code, libraries and applications FOR COMMERCIAL HARDWARE OR SOFTWARE PRODUCTS IS NOT ALLOWED without prior written permission by the LinuxSampler authors.

Isn't it clear enough?

If I ask for donations to cover hosting is that commercial?

Donations are not selling, even LinuxSampler site itself has a big Donate button

What seems like a trivial addition is a potential legal minefield and as soon as your organisation becomes vaguely decent and attracted a few legal letters about this and that, you're quickly going to realise you'll want to nope right out of there.

Just get the permission or don't use it all. How many organisations ever tried to get that permission, btw?

That addition makes Linuxsampler undistributiable at scale.

How is that fact bad for end-users?

[Baggypants]

LinuxSampler is licensed under the GNU GPL with the exception that USAGE of the source code, libraries and applications FOR COMMERCIAL HARDWARE OR SOFTWARE PRODUCTS IS NOT ALLOWED without prior written permission by the LinuxSampler authors.

Isn't it clear enough?

No, because the addition of the exception means it cannot possibly be under the GPL. If it’s not under the GPL we cannot know what our licence to distribute it is and, by extension, our liability. If you don’t think that has an effect on the ability to distribute then consider the thread title.

[studio32]

something removed later

[Baggypants]

Afaik, they can change the license if they wants it and the main dev even mentioned that loosening the license is something they consider.

All power to them if they get a license change, but it seems unlikely. As I mentioned, we've been here before:

viewtopic.php?p=72851#p72851

[lazyklimm]

The obvious benefit of Linuxsampler becoming fully GPL, is that distribution in distro as Debian/Ubuntu would be possible. People would have easier access to it.

Do you know people who is seriously into making music, use Debian/Ubuntu and don't use KXStudio (which already has LS)?

People would likely be more willing to contribute to a project that has a clear GPL license.

I don't think so. DrumGizmo has a clear GPL license, still the developers amount is pretty the same.

[lazyklimm]

Afaik, they can change the license if they wants it and the main dev even mentioned that loosening the license is something they consider.

All power to them if they get a license change, but it seems unlikely. As I mentioned, we've been here before:

viewtopic.php?p=72851#p72851

Oh, btw, where is that 100% Free/Libre/Schmibre LS replacement by FaTonyLyberta? Or by anyone else?

[Baggypants]

Afaik, they can change the license if they wants it and the main dev even mentioned that loosening the license is something they consider.

All power to them if they get a license change, but it seems unlikely. As I mentioned, we've been here before:

viewtopic.php?p=72851#p72851

Oh, btw, where is that 100% Free/Libre/Schmibre LS replacement by FaTonyLyberta? Or by anyone else?

You mean sfizz? Dunno.