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Re: Spitfire Audio free sample libraries

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:32 am
by merlyn
@Alex : Not your worst idea but the data doesn't back it up.
AlexThe Bassist wrote:They'll see demand and will respond.
That's wishful thinking. Do you have any evidence that that is the case? How many emails would it take?

The well known example is Adobe Photoshop on Linux. Linux users keep requesting a port of Photoshop. They have been for years and Adobe don't do it.

There was a page sometime around 2013 (now gone) on getsatisfaction where 14,000 people voted for Photoshop on Linux. It didn't happen. Adobe say their market research tells them there's no money in it.

So companies can pretty easily ignore emails if there's no money in it for them. Maybe you should learn how to use Google and do a bit of research before posting your half-baked fantasies.

Re: Spitfire Audio free sample libraries

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:13 am
by glowrak guy
AlexTheBassist wrote: GNU/Linux is still shockingly underestimated among audio software makers, and many of them still think there are zero pro audio users on this platform, so they clearly don't monitor any Linux forums.
Pro devs know how many musicians on a given platform will spend $Hundreds of Dollar$
on a suite of their products. It's in their business plan.

They also know how many musicians on each OS will spend $180 on a single product,

They also know how many musicians will spend $50 on a significant update
to a $180 product.

They also know the sales results of bundling both expensive and inexpensive software
with various hardware products.

They also know how much-or-little market share is captured by 'group-buys',
no-brainer sales, holiday promotional discounts, and introductory offers.

The pro developers have accurately assessed the numbers of 'paying' linux musicians,
and despite the math, some have provided world-class products, knowing the number
of sales needed to turn a healthy profit from the linux manhours, was unlikely to be reached.

There can be ulterior motives for making a saleable linux software.
Some developers are up to the gills with msoft and apple, and have done a trial run.
As you say, support by communication and purchases is what counts,
especially coming from a small, but growing community.

Still, the beancounters rule. They don't get paid for bad guesses,
hopeful sentimentalities, or fighting the machine. Just the numbers, just the math.
Cheers

Re: Spitfire Audio free sample libraries

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:50 am
by glowrak guy
AlexTheBassist wrote: Anybody who wants Windows software to be ported to Linux should just open up their email client,
write a big letter describing all the problems encountered when using WINE
What problems? Properly coded software, that doesn't include some control-freak-calling-home code
to authorize the product, will almost always work. Spitfire breaks industry standard paths.
Ilok goes to extremes, to provide extreme protection for their clients. But some big
companies are improving their installation/authorization warzones, like
Native Instruments, Korg, Cakewalk, and Reason. The undulating hydra of
jackd, alsa, and pulse, give me far more grief than finding some useful windows software.

When I email or forum-chat with developers, it's to report the enjoyment I have using their products,
and sometimes I mention it's used in linux,
and the devs rountinely reply their appreciation, and often, pleasant surprise.
If something didn't work, a linux user complaining about it out of the blue,
would rightfully be ignored, or reminded of the rigours devs face just surviving
against the current competition.

A lot of problems linux musicians face, come from under-specced equipment,
and the steadfast insistance upon constantly 'updating' systems that achieved some audio production stability,
only to be knocked back by the alpha-beta jollies of linux coders who couldn't carry a tune from the couch to the floor,.
Cheers .

Re: Spitfire Audio free sample libraries

Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:07 pm
by bluebell
merlyn wrote: The well known example is Adobe Photoshop on Linux. Linux users keep requesting a port of Photoshop. They have been for years and Adobe don't do it.

There was a page sometime around 2013 (now gone) on getsatisfaction where 14,000 people voted for Photoshop on Linux. It didn't happen. Adobe say their market research tells them there's no money in it.
No surprise. They know that Linux users aren't Windows or Mac users who just use another operating system by chance.

Lots of Linux users use it because they don't accept an operating system that tells them what they're allowed to do. That means that the number of Linux users that may use their product and accept the whole licensing nightmare is is extremely small. They know that.

It's no big problem to make a Linux user accepting closed source software. The problem begins when he isn't allowed to use the software on all of his computers. And no, most of them won't accept carrying a hardware dongle with them.

Re: Spitfire Audio free sample libraries

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:43 pm
by glowrak guy
There are not a lot of licensing nightmares. And many of those that do exist
are because of hardware mismatches, user performance errors, and user configuration follies.
I've been pretty lucky on the hardware part, but have slow-danced with the other two
a few times too many to have a decent resume' :(

Some people expect free software, because sometimes there is some.
Some people expect free food, because sometimes there is some.
But neither is available without someone doing the hard work
in costly environments, to make it possible, and then it's shared by generosity.

When linux users start demanding professional coders to give them free software,
it will fly about as high and far as food users demanding ranchers and farmers
give away their produce and livestock. Grow your own, raise your own, code your own.
See how long you last :wink:
Cheers

Re: Spitfire Audio free sample libraries

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:02 pm
by merlyn
In the Adobe case there was no question that Photoshop would be free or open source. There were many, many posts where people who use Adobe Creative Cloud said that Adobe was the only reason they still used Windows. They could do everything else on Linux, but needed a Windows partition for Adobe. They were already paying customers.

There's a more recent example here :

https://adobe-video.uservoice.com/forum ... e-a-huge-m

There are 11,285 votes for Premiere Pro on Linux and it hasn't happened.

My point was that although @Alex's suggestion seems like a good idea, it isn't realistic and WINE is the only option in some cases.

Re: Spitfire Audio free sample libraries

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:09 pm
by AlexTheBassist
merlyn wrote:Do you have any evidence that that is the case? How many emails would it take?
I don't know the numbers, because I am a single person, and nobody will make a Linux plugin just for me unless I do that myself. However, there was enough emails sent to Chris from airwindows who even open sourced stuff he was previously selling, there was enough emails to get Manda Audio to work on native Linux version of MT Power Drumkit, there was enough pressure to make u-He, venomode, ToneLib, Audio Assault, and Auburn Sounds (just to name a few) release their stuff for GNU/Linux. The most remarkable example, however, is Reaper. Some of commercial developers also adopted LV2, which is why I will definitely buy all of Auburn Sounds and Cut Through Recordings stuff.
merlyn wrote:Maybe you should learn how to use Google and do a bit of research before posting your half-baked fantasies.
I use Google since early 2000s, I know how to deal with it, and I was baked as hell (fully, so to say) when posting things that made you cry. Sorry, but that's a double miss.
merlyn wrote:There are 11,285 votes for Premiere Pro on Linux and it hasn't happened.
This is Adobe, what else could you expect?
glowrak guy wrote:When linux users start demanding professional coders to give them free software,
it will fly about as high and far as food users demanding ranchers and farmers
give away their produce and livestock.
These are complete idiots, not Linux users. They may use Linux, but they are still a bunch of idiots. I don't even want to explain what's wrong with them, every sane person knows it.
merlyn wrote:it isn't realistic
And this is based on a single case. Did you know that Autodesk, Corel, and many other “big guys” actually make really expensive Linux software? Even Microsoft releases stuff for Linux nowadays.

Re: Spitfire Audio free sample libraries

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:07 am
by merlyn
AlexTheBassist wrote:there was enough emails to get Manda Audio to work on native Linux version of MT Power Drumkit
LOL. I can't believe you chose that as an example. Much as I applaud Manda Audio for recognising Linux their recommendation at the moment is for Linux users to run MT Power DrumKit under WINE.

So if you're alright with using WINE for MT Power DrumKit why did you get your panties in a twist when someone asked about running Spitfire Audio with WINE?

After that loopy digression we can get back on topic.

This is the post that got Alex's panties in a twist :
Wakellor wrote:Hey, guys, I have a problem of my own. The LABS application had been working for me for a very long time, but in the last month or so open, it has started showing that loading screen, then just crashing! The vst plugin is still working completely fine, though, and all the instruments I'd already downloaded work perfectly (in Bitwig using Airwave)... but I was wondering if anyone else has had the SA LABS Manager itself crash?
If anyone has any ideas please post them. If you have ideological objections just ignore it.

Re: Spitfire Audio free sample libraries

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:56 am
by AlexTheBassist
merlyn wrote:[So if you're alright with using WINE for MT Power DrumKit why did you get your panties in a twist when someone asked about running Spitfire Audio with WINE?
I am not okay with that, I use Drumgizmo instead. However, I'd like to have something like MT Power Drumkit for quick “prototyping” of drum parts, or even for entire drum part creation process, and it should be a native app/plugin. I run some Windows plugins in linvst, but I never use any of them for real production process. WINE is incredibly slow. It's fine for playing around and showing your school friends who's the daddy here, but when it comes to real production, WINE fails. Also, I just don't want it to be on my machine, it's like a brown stain of you know what on a snow white shirt.

Re: Spitfire Audio free sample libraries

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:00 am
by AlexTheBassist
merlyn wrote:their recommendation at the moment is for Linux users to run MT Power DrumKit under WINE
They are working on a native version. I got the same recommendation from BABY Audio with their products, but they will consider porting their plugs to GNU/Linux if they get enough requests. How much is “enough” is still a mystery, but I probably wasn't even the first person to contact them on the topic. Regardless, Manda Audio work on a native plugin version.

Re: Spitfire Audio free sample libraries

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:12 am
by AlexTheBassist
merlyn wrote:If anyone has any ideas please post them. If you have ideological objections just ignore it.
Ideology? What's ideological about vast difference in performance between WINE bridged and native plugins? What's ideological about faster plugin scan and faster project opening?

Re: Spitfire Audio free sample libraries

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:56 am
by tseaver
@bananaplug:
This is exciting - if i can get Spitfire stuff running on linux i might finally be able to be done with windows for good!

I'm on Ubuntu Studio 19.04. I have the Spitfire app running via wine and downloaded some sound libraries. However I can't seem to get the plugin recognized in Carla (or bitwig). I have added 'LABS (64 Bit).dll' to path as suggested but it doesn't show up when i try to add plugins in carla . . .

any thoughts ? Even very obvious suggestions welcome I'm fairly new to linux and this is the first time trying to run a windows vst on linux so i might be missing something obvious . . .
I was just able to get one of the LABS libraries loaded on Ubuntu Studio 19.10 using LinVST (https://github.com/osxmidi/LinVst/), using both Carla and Ardour as hosts. The trick was to run `linvstconvert`, pointing it to the directory inside my Wine environment where the Spitfire installer placed its DLL (`~/.spitfire/drive_c/Program Files/VstPlugins`), and then add that directory to the VST plugin search path for the host.

Re: Spitfire Audio free sample libraries

Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 5:13 am
by Fourstepper
Has someone managed to get any paid libraries working? During the Christmas times, I've gotten the ton collection from my gf while still on Mac and Windows and now on Linux I am sad not to use it

Re: Spitfire Audio free sample libraries

Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 11:21 pm
by tseaver
@Fourstepper :
Has someone managed to get any paid libraries working? During the Christmas times, I've gotten the ton collection from my gf while still on Mac and Windows and now on Linux I am sad not to use it
I was running several of the paid libraries successfully up until the "BBCSO Discover / Core" release: they updated the library loader / license manager app, and broke it. See this WineHQ bug report, which includes a patch for the fix https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49178.

I'm hopeful that the fix there will re-enable use of the Spitfire library loader, as I paid for "BBCSO Core" and can't use it. :(

Re: Spitfire Audio free sample libraries

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:56 pm
by tseaver
One of the Spitfire support folks went out of his way to help me with the issue: it turns out that there
is a knob in the 'lm.conf' file which allows disabling the upgrade of the 'Spitfire Audio.exe' app:

Code: Select all

@@ -22,6 +22,7 @@
       "login_token": "XXXXXXXXX",
       "cdn": "cloudfront",
       "log_level": "info"
+      "skip_updates": "true",
     },
     "ui": {
       "window_bounds": "448 172 1024 740"
which lets me use the app until a Wine update comes out with the fix for this
bug: https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49178.