For those of you that use samplers - do you use GIG?

Link to good samples/soundfonts at http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/free_audio_data

Moderators: khz, MattKingUSA

How much do you use GIG files?

All the time!
2
8%
Quite frequently
5
19%
Rarely, and won't be sad to lose it
10
38%
Never
9
35%
 
Total votes: 26

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falkTX
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For those of you that use samplers - do you use GIG?

Postby falkTX » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:58 am

It is time for another poll! :D

Do to conflicts and issues with linuxsampler plugin API, I am removing support for it from Carla's codebase.
Linuxsampler is used for GIG and SFZ file handling.
For SFZ I already have a replacement, SFZero embed in carla (already tested to work well)

But no replacement for GIG files, though I wonder... who really uses that now!?

So I want to gather your opinion.
Please only vote if you use sample files (SF2, SFZ, GIG, Kontakt, whatever)

PS: for those that use gig files with carla, ls16 (linuxsampler based plugin) will still work fine.
Just not integrated in Carla.

Luc
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Re: For those of you that use samplers - do you use GIG?

Postby Luc » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:35 am

Hmm... :? "All the time" and "Quite frequently" sound like a bit too much for me, but I do use GIG and SFZ to some extent, along with WAV samples.

This is worrisome because Carla is all I have for now.

I have this 'ls16' you speak of, but Carla won't find it. Running it on the command line is one of the most difficult things I have tried to do on Linux bar compiling a kernel.

Code: Select all

$ /usr/lib/dssi/ls16/ls16_gui
usage: /usr/lib/dssi/ls16/ls16_gui <osc url> <plugin dllname> <plugin label> <user-friendly id>


I don't believe there is any hope I will ever understand people who think that I'll even know what an 'osc url' is much less remember this or that one 'osc url' whenever I want to run an application... or a sampler.

The only other sampler I have is for Windows and it only plays WAV files.

The sampling life is not very easy in Linux Land.

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falkTX
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Re: For those of you that use samplers - do you use GIG?

Postby falkTX » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:29 pm

Carla blacklists ls16 and linuxsampler plugins right now, as they conflict with its internal linuxsampler usage.

ls16_gui is something for developers and applications to use, not end-users.
(It is part of the DSSI spec to have external applications providing the UI)

you can try out the plugin like this:

Code: Select all

carla-single dssi /usr/lib/dssi/ls16.so


worst case, you can run linuxsampler standalone or its official plugin.

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Michael Willis
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Re: For those of you that use samplers - do you use GIG?

Postby Michael Willis » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:28 pm

The only GIG format sample that I use is the Maestro Concert Grand, but I have been looking for a replacement. I'm even considering recording with a real piano. I wouldn't be disappointed if GIG support was dropped.

Edit: Just curious, which SFZero implementation are you using? There are several forks. I remember being disappointed that SFZero doesn't support some SFZ opcodes that are supported by LinuxSampler. I was considering contributing some code to SFZero, but I got lost when trying to make sense of all of the forks.

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Re: For those of you that use samplers - do you use GIG?

Postby ssj71 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:01 pm

Michael Willis wrote:The only GIG format sample that I use is the Maestro Concert Grand, but I have been looking for a replacement. I'm even considering recording with a real piano. I wouldn't be disappointed if GIG support was dropped.


The salamander grand is an alternative (https://rytmenpinne.wordpress.com/sound ... grandpiano). There's also the NBO refined version called the little lizard (http://www.bandshed.net/sounds/sfz/Litt ... _LSfix.zip). I'd be curious about your thoughts on them as I have my opinion about the Salamander vs Maestro.

Sorry falktx for hijacking the thread. I'm in the same boat as Michael so I commented. :)
_ssj71

music: https://soundcloud.com/ssj71
My plugins are Infamous! http://ssj71.github.io/infamousPlugins
I just want to get back to making music!

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Michael Willis
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Re: For those of you that use samplers - do you use GIG?

Postby Michael Willis » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:45 pm

ssj71 wrote:The salamander grand is an alternative

I'll have to try the Salamander (or Little Lizard) again. As I recall, the sound wasn't as crisp as I wanted from a concert grand piano. I do remember thinking that the Little Lizard was a great job at reducing the size without compromising its sound. I have had multiple people recommend the Salamander, one even much preferred it over the Maestro Concert Grand, so I should probably test it out again. Maybe my tastes will be different this time.

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Re: For those of you that use samplers - do you use GIG?

Postby alex stone » Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:29 am

Luc wrote:Hmm... :? "All the time" and "Quite frequently" sound like a bit too much for me, but I do use GIG and SFZ to some extent, along with WAV samples.

This is worrisome because Carla is all I have for now.

I have this 'ls16' you speak of, but Carla won't find it. Running it on the command line is one of the most difficult things I have tried to do on Linux bar compiling a kernel.

Code: Select all

$ /usr/lib/dssi/ls16/ls16_gui
usage: /usr/lib/dssi/ls16/ls16_gui <osc url> <plugin dllname> <plugin label> <user-friendly id>


I don't believe there is any hope I will ever understand people who think that I'll even know what an 'osc url' is much less remember this or that one 'osc url' whenever I want to run an application... or a sampler.

The only other sampler I have is for Windows and it only plays WAV files.

The sampling life is not very easy in Linux Land.


Look for ghostess in your repo. It will open ls16 as a plugin from the command line and gives you the gui as well.

you can do something like

$ ghostess ls16-dssi.so


and it will open to a small popup with a button marked UI. Press this and the magnificent interface that is LS16 will open.

Ghostess assumes your folder containing dssi's is in the usual places.

I have given up on carla for the linuxsampler problems and the restriction of one instrument per plugin. (no matter how many midi channels it has carla plays them all at once, so it's one midi channel per strip/plugin instance as far as i can tell and with experimenting). It's fine for those users who might have 10 or twelve single instruments on separate tracks, but for us folk who use herds of instrument articulations per instrument Carla is not designed to cater for that workflow.

I use:

A) Reaper with linuxsampler instances as plugins, saved as Reaper presets. You need to build these one at a time, as Fantasia and Qsampler will not open for each plugin instance selected by track. They'll only allow you to edit the first instance. So if you go down this path, you'll add a track to Reaper, add linuxsampler as a vst plugin, open Fantasia/Qsampler, add your instruments to each midi channel, save the track as an fx preset first, then as a Reaper track preset. When you've done this, you shut Fantasia/Qsampler down (i opened them in a terminal), then remove the track.

Wash, rinse, repeat. Be patient. It does work, and Reaper does remember what you've done. Best of all, there are actions for switching channels in Reaper, and i utilize the 16 pads on the top of my MPK88 to switch channels to the articulation i want for the track/instrument selected. As an example, i have two tracks for my 1st violins because i have more than 16 articulations.

You can also build midi instrument maps in linuxsampler as use these in your plugin instances. Then switch artics using programme changes. Repear will also faithfully record keyswitch data, if your gig is multi instrument.

I have over 178 Reaper presets created this way, and linuxsampler runs just fine even with all of them loaded. (My box has 64GB of ram)

B) Lately, Muse has improved further, and i have Muse3 installed as a backup. Muse does DSSI by default, BUT, ls16 will not save any instruments you have loaded in an instance. (Tim says DSSI doesn't do this, if i understood him correctly).
However, you can use LV2 quite successfully, using the same patient building process i described above.
I hope Tim finds a way around the saving preset DSSI conundrum, because it would be a lot easier to open the LS16 UI in Muse, per instance, load the instruments, and save them as a preset.

Hope this helps.

Alex.

p.s. I have a lot of gig libraries, including some big orchestral sets. They're still as valid as anything else, and linuxsampler gives us the chance to keep using them. The samples are the same recordings, yes? I have a couple of Kontakt libs, but i've given up on them for their vehement anti-linux stance, and the sometimes yes sometimes no nature of using Wine. It was worth leaving all this stress behind, imho.

I respectfully urge anyone still using gig files to continue to do so. One day we'll have a proper plugin UI (LV2 and VST) for the mighty Linuxsampler, and all the effort i described above will diminish to something normal.

If i could code, and i'm no spring chicken, it'd be done already, and we'd all be swimming in Vegan Cream and Strawberries.
Last edited by alex stone on Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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falkTX
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Re: For those of you that use samplers - do you use GIG?

Postby falkTX » Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:56 am

Thanks for your input alex.
It is true, Carla is not yet ready for such high-end setups.
When I initially added linuxsampler to carla I had big plans, but seeing a lot of issues happening with it I am not able to rely on it (nor do I want to, anymore). Maybe I am using its plugin API the wrong way, or building it incorrectly, I don't know. but as you said, the current flow in Carla for it does not scale well.
I also have always been in doubt regarding its license, it "poisons" the final Carla build with a restriction that I really dislike.
SFZero (the alternative to linuxsampler SFZ handling) works quite well for my use-case, and building it is quite straight forward compared to linuxsampler (which 1. is not on debian, 2. requires bison, flex and some perl-xml stuff, which is a bit too much)

LinuxSampler seems better to be left as its own thing.
With linuxsampler code out of carla, I will remove the blacklisting of it.

backward compatibility can be kept, carla will convert existing projects with GIG files to load the linuxsampler plugin, then load state as needed.
drag&dropping gig files into carla can still be done too in a similar way, if you (all people here) find it useful.

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Michael Willis
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Re: For those of you that use samplers - do you use GIG?

Postby Michael Willis » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:46 pm

alex stone wrote:I have a lot of gig libraries, including some big orchestral sets.


Are these big orchestral gigasampler libraries still available somewhere? I've tried to find gig format orchestral samples, but it seems like all of the commercial producers have discontinued those products in favor of ones that require Kontakt or ARIA or something. I don't really want to be tied down to software that doesn't support Linux, so I opt not to buy those products.

alex stone
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Re: For those of you that use samplers - do you use GIG?

Postby alex stone » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:58 pm

Michael Willis wrote:
alex stone wrote:I have a lot of gig libraries, including some big orchestral sets.


Are these big orchestral gigasampler libraries still available somewhere? I've tried to find gig format orchestral samples, but it seems like all of the commercial producers have discontinued those products in favor of ones that require Kontakt or ARIA or something. I don't really want to be tied down to software that doesn't support Linux, so I opt not to buy those products.


Not really as new. Some lib manufacturers will sell them as legacy products, but usually disclaim any service obligations as well. Sometimes this works ok, and sometimes not. I bought Symphony of Voices as a legacy product, and the producer Eric told me he wouldn't support it as it was already legacy. I accepted this, and have a fine library as a result, which i converted from the original AKAI format, to GIG.

If, for example, you wanted to buy the VSL symphonic cube, in GIG format, you could ask on their forum, as VSL are ok with a license transfer, for a fee. Some devs are not, and don't permit sell ons, but most are quite reasonable.

https://www.vsl.co.at/community/forums

I've also had a good run with Dan Dean, from whom i bought his excellent woodwinds. He was really cool with me buying gig format.

dandeanpro.com

I still keep an eye out myself for opportunities. I have almost two complete orchestral sets, plus a lot of smaller stuff i've bought as native gig, or converted. Project Sam brass in GIG format is one i've been searching for, for a while. I don't know if they'll accept a license transfer as they've not answered my emails.

Just a couple more, and i'll be done. Really. Just a couple more... 8)

You can also take a look in the For Sale forum section in vi-control.net.

https://vi-control.net/community/

See the classifieds at the bottom.

You can also ask there for a specific lib, and see if anyone's willing to sell. Be sure to check the license is valid with the lib manufacturer. I remember seeing the VSL cube for sale not so long ago. (I already have the Sonic Implants Symphonic Collection so i didn't need another big lib like that.)


Good Luck.

Alex.

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Lyberta
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Re: For those of you that use samplers - do you use GIG?

Postby Lyberta » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:52 pm

@falkTX, did you embed FluidSynth for SF2?

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falkTX
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Re: For those of you that use samplers - do you use GIG?

Postby falkTX » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:20 pm

Sorta. It uses libfluidsynth API to handle SF2 files and render MIDI events.
Same thing as other plugins out there do, like fluidsynth-dssi, calf-fluidsynth and AVLDrums.

It is not embedded in the actual code, but uses its library.

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Re: For those of you that use samplers - do you use GIG?

Postby varpa » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:43 pm

I use GIG quite a bit. I have several piano libraries from SampleTekk in GIG format, all of which are much better than any open source piano library. Sampletekk discontinued GIG formats a while ago, but some of these pianos are available in SFZ, several of which I have, but the SFZ versions are not nearly as good as the GIG versions. However, for piano I also use Pianoteq which is now better than any of these sampled formats, so I will probably be using the SampleTekk GIG files so much in the future. I also use Dan Dean basses in GIG a lot, and are also the best bass samples I have yet found that work in linux. I mostly use linuxsampler+Ardour, though this method seems impossible to use without getting x-runs and I've considered moving to a Carla setup. However, I can always run linuxsampler as standalone if I use Carla loses GIG support.


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