[SOLVED] sfizz crashes Reaper on EndeavourOS with Pipewire

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PatS
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[SOLVED] sfizz crashes Reaper on EndeavourOS with Pipewire

Post by PatS »

I've been trying out EndeavourOS as an alternative to Manjaro (both with KDE Plasma)
It's nice and lean and lightning fast, has Pipewire by default, and for the first time in my life I've chosen btrfs as file system.

Here's what happens:

EndeavourOS with Pipewire 0.3.56
DAW: Reaper 6.64
Plugin: sfizz 1.2.0

I start Reaper (with its audio system set to PulseAudio)
and add an instance of sfizz (either VST or LV2).
works!

I change Reaper's audio system to JACK
and again load sfizz on to a track
works!

I close and restart Reaper (now starting up with audio set to JACK)
and add an instance of sfizz.
Reaper closes immediately!

I start Reaper
then change it from JACK to Pulse
and add an instance of sfizz
Reaper closes immediately!


Summary: When starting up Reaper set to Pulse (or even to Dummy Audio) then things work, even if I then change it to JACK. At least sizz loads fine without crashing Reaper.
When Reaper starts up set to JACK, it crashes as soon as I insert sfizz.


On my other (tried and tested) system, Manjaro 21.3.2 with exactly the same versions of Pipewire, Reaper, and sfizz, all this works fine.

Thanks for any ideas or clues!
Patrick
Last edited by PatS on Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: sfizz crashes Reaper on EndeavourOS with Pipewire

Post by sysrqer »

I don't know if reaper creates a log but have you tried running it in a terminal to see if there is anything meaningful there?
Is the file system the same on both machines?

I don't know what else to suggest because it's working for me.
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Re: sfizz crashes Reaper on EndeavourOS with Pipewire

Post by PatS »

I couldn't find a log.
When I run Reaper in a terminal the final output when the crash happens is: './reaper' terminated by signal SIGKILL (Forced quit)
So nothing too helpful, I guess.

About the file systems. Manjaro (where all is working) is on ext4, EndeavourOS is on Btrfs.
Reaper is installed on another partition (where I keep separate data) which is ext4. Maybe not the smartest idea??
Could that really cause the problem?

However,
while searching for information about a log I found a thread on the Reaper forum mentioning that "plugins can be set to run in a separate process or a dedicated process per plugin..."
That actually seems to solve my problem!!
When I set sfizz to run as a dedicated process everything's fine!

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=212157

Strange though, isn't it?

Big thanks for guiding me in the right direction.
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Re: sfizz crashes Reaper on EndeavourOS with Pipewire

Post by PatS »

...oh, and running as dedicated process is only available for VST, not LV2.
Luckily sfizz comes in both formats.
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Re: sfizz crashes Reaper on EndeavourOS with Pipewire

Post by Audiojunkie »

It sounds like you’re getting hit by the OOM killer. Run Reaper from the terminal and see what it says when you load the plugin. If the terminal says, “Killed”, then that’s likely the problem. Also moving the plugin to its own process (like you did) would be an easy way around the problem as long as no one process triggers the OOM Killer.

See details here:

https://www.baeldung.com/linux/what-killed-a-process

The best solution for the future would be to set your system limits to allow each process more memory (through memlock), as well as run your pipewire in a rt process:

RLIMITs

Real-time priority limits are usually stored in /etc/security/limits.conf and /etc/security/limits.d/. The best option is to add a new file 95-pipewire.conf in /etc/security/limits.d/ with this content:

# Default limits for users of pipewire
@pipewire - rtprio 95
@pipewire - nice -19
@pipewire - memlock 4194304

Then add your user to the PipeWire group so that you can use these priorities

See below for more details:

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pipewire ... nce-tuning
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Re: sfizz crashes Reaper on EndeavourOS with Pipewire

Post by PatS »

I can't exactly confirm that it's the OOM killer.
Terminal output says "...terminated by signal SIGKILL" but not "Killed" as it would in the case of OOM killer.

However,
Audiojunkie wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:42 am RLIMITs

Real-time priority limits are usually stored in /etc/security/limits.conf and /etc/security/limits.d/. The best option is to add a new file 95-pipewire.conf in /etc/security/limits.d/ with this content:

# Default limits for users of pipewire
@pipewire - rtprio 95
@pipewire - nice -19
@pipewire - memlock 4194304

Then add your user to the PipeWire group so that you can use these priorities
That solved it!
While reading things up I realized there is a package named "realtime-privileges" which does basically the same thing (creates /etc/security/limits.d/99-realtime-privileges.conf along with the "realtime" group).
Of course, in my other (working) system this had been done (I don't recall doing it manually myself though).

I did know about the RLIMITs thing but it escaped me on my newly installed system. And I would not have expected Reaper crashing when loading just this one plugin (sfizz).
artix_linux_user wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:38 am some fullmoon ago, sfizz which I am often using crashed host DAW.
Tried several versions of sfiss, also built myself - the results were allways the same:
sfizz crashed everytime...
This is not a Reaper, nor a distribution or a pipewire issue - that is what i am thinking about it.
I couldnt find the reason and I couldnt fix the problem, so I am using one of the twenty other sfz plugins...
happy jamming!
Good to know! Though it seems to work now with RLIMITs set.
Somehow I settled with sfizz some time back when I was looking for an sfz plugin. I might check the other options again now.

OK, problem solved. Thanks a lot!
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Re: [SOLVED] sfizz crashes Reaper on EndeavourOS with Pipewire

Post by Audiojunkie »

I’m glad to hear that the issue is resolved! :) I ran into a similar problem myself not too long ago. :)
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Re: [SOLVED] sfizz crashes Reaper on EndeavourOS with Pipewire

Post by PatS »

artix_linux_user wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:36 pm
If plugins are crashing on linux I am thanking to god that i am having no gambling problem and then I would bet a zillion "rip me of coins" that its the graphic toolkit that is making the problem...
One would think, that after some years and decades of pro audio on linux, that there would be now a golden path for plugin devs making sure that the gui is allways stable, that dependencies are right....that there is one gtk not ten!
The blessings and curses of Open Source and open standards... :)

I remember how thrilled I was when Reaper started supporting LV2. Which, by all means, I still think is fantastic.
Unfortunately the Calf plugins (respectively their GUIs) were not usable in Reaper because of their graphics toolkit (if I understood correctly).
Haven't tried them in Reaper for a while now, but I believe things haven't changed, have they?

Oh well, might as well be grateful considering all the achievements and progress Linux audio has made over the years.
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Re: [SOLVED] sfizz crashes Reaper on EndeavourOS with Pipewire

Post by Audiojunkie »

PatS wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:03 pm
artix_linux_user wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:36 pm
If plugins are crashing on linux I am thanking to god that i am having no gambling problem and then I would bet a zillion "rip me of coins" that its the graphic toolkit that is making the problem...
One would think, that after some years and decades of pro audio on linux, that there would be now a golden path for plugin devs making sure that the gui is allways stable, that dependencies are right....that there is one gtk not ten!
The blessings and curses of Open Source and open standards... :)

I remember how thrilled I was when Reaper started supporting LV2. Which, by all means, I still think is fantastic.
Unfortunately the Calf plugins (respectively their GUIs) were not usable in Reaper because of their graphics toolkit (if I understood correctly).
Haven't tried them in Reaper for a while now, but I believe things haven't changed, have they?

Oh well, might as well be grateful considering all the achievements and progress Linux audio has made over the years.
I don't think that will ever change. Those older plugins used GTK2 for their GUIs, IIRC. I just write those plugins off as the price of progress. As mentioned above, Carla might be your only way to use them with their GUI. I like my system clean without bubble gum and bailing wire methods of making everything work--that's why I just write those plugins off.

EDIT: An alternative is using Ardour. They work fine in Ardour.
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Re: [SOLVED] sfizz crashes Reaper on EndeavourOS with Pipewire

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

artix_linux_user wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:36 pm [...]
One would think, that after some years and decades of pro audio on linux, that there would be now a golden path for plugin devs making sure that the gui is allways stable, that dependencies are right....that there is one gtk not ten!
love
Linux, unfortunately, is not very backward compatible. We have Windows for that. The problem with the slick looking Calf plugins is, indeed, that they use GTk2. As long as the developer of the Calf plugins won't re-compile 'm for the latest GTk version they are obsolete. To be honest: I'm slowly getting pretty darn sick of the non-backward compatibility of Linux stuff after using it for 15+ years. I can't use some of my favorite stuff anymore after installing a new distro (which you have to do every now and then). And my (old) knowledge is getting obsolete too. I'm getting too old to get used to new stuff... :roll:
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Re: [SOLVED] sfizz crashes Reaper on EndeavourOS with Pipewire

Post by trochi »

Hey there!

I got the same issue and I'd like to resolve it.

How do you add a user to a PipeWire group? The resources I found weren't all that helpful. Could someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks :)

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Re: [SOLVED] sfizz crashes Reaper on EndeavourOS with Pipewire

Post by tseaver »

@trochi

How do you add a user to a PipeWire group?

Full info:

Code: Select all

$ man usermod

Short answer:

Code: Select all

$ sudo usermod -G pipewire <your-user-id-goes-here>
Ubuntu, Mixbus32C; acoustic blues / country / jazz
trochi
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Re: [SOLVED] sfizz crashes Reaper on EndeavourOS with Pipewire

Post by trochi »

tseaver wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 3:51 am

@trochi

How do you add a user to a PipeWire group?

Full info:

Code: Select all

$ man usermod

Short answer:

Code: Select all

$ sudo usermod -G pipewire <your-user-id-goes-here>

Thank you very much!

That worked, but unfortunately it seems to also successfully lock me out of using sudo. It says my username is not in the sudoers file.
The tutorials I found that claim to solve that issue require su root access which apparently is not available on pop os?! Do you know how I resolve this issue?

Thanks :)

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Re: [SOLVED] sfizz crashes Reaper on EndeavourOS with Pipewire

Post by tseaver »

Urgh! I knew better than to post the shortcut. Should've been

Code: Select all

$ usermod -Ga pipewire <your-user-id-goes-here>

Code: Select all

$ man usermod
...
       -G, --groups GROUP1[,GROUP2,...[,GROUPN]]]
           A list of supplementary groups which the user is also a member of. Each group is
           separated from the next by a comma, with no intervening whitespace. The groups are
           subject to the same restrictions as the group given with the -g option.

       If the user is currently a member of a group which is not listed, the user will be
       removed from the group. This behaviour can be changed via the -a option, which appends
       the user to the current supplementary group list.

You'll need to get root access again, and add yourself back into the /etc/group file: you might be
able to copy the backup file (/etc/group- on my box) back over it.

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Re: [SOLVED] sfizz crashes Reaper on EndeavourOS with Pipewire

Post by trochi »

The group- backup file is there. I tried renaming it to group with no luck. How should that be done?

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