Expansionssssss

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OccinticLady
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Expansionssssss

Post by OccinticLady »

Hi all,
I'm getting the hang of it. What a suggested video (on the workflow of Martin Sturtzer) tought me is that he plays sequences and quietly prepares the next sequence as the current one plays out...
So, I assume: expansion.
Two options:
1- the best and most expensive: hard synths. Controlled via MIDI
2- the least expensive : softsynths on a laptop
I'd have to opt for the latter, cash is not at a premium, here...
My plan: set up a laptop (synths, jackmixer and qjackctl), have it controlled via MIDI so I can steer the soft synths on the second laptop via the first one, and have the audio routed to the mixer and into the recorder...
Two laptops. One MIDI controlled (with the DAW) and the other with the instruments (controlled by the DAW and each with a separate MIDI channel, of course)
So...reality or pipe dream?
Thanks for meditating with me
Melissa
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Re: Expansionssssss

Post by sysrqer »

I think VCV Rack would be perfect for this. There are a few ways you could do it, from having a couple of sequencers and a switch, or using one sequencer with '8face' (a module which recalls settings so you could store lots of predefined sequences and edit them on the fly as you see fit). In both methods you could have little changes happening now and then using probability to make the sequences more interesting.

It might seem daunting at first but if you are not building voices and just using it as a sequencer then you don't need to use many modules and would be quite simple. Happy to give some suggestions about the details if you are interested in this approach. I don't think you would need two laptops unless there's some other advantage to it.
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Re: Expansionssssss

Post by tavasti »

OccinticLady wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:19 am Hi all,
I'm getting the hang of it. What a suggested video (on the workflow of Martin Sturtzer) tought me is that he plays sequences and quietly prepares the next sequence as the current one plays out...
So, I assume: expansion.
Two options:
1- the best and most expensive: hard synths. Controlled via MIDI
2- the least expensive : softsynths on a laptop
I'd have to opt for the latter, cash is not at a premium, here...
My plan: set up a laptop (synths, jackmixer and qjackctl), have it controlled via MIDI so I can steer the soft synths on the second laptop via the first one, and have the audio routed to the mixer and into the recorder...
Two laptops. One MIDI controlled (with the DAW) and the other with the instruments (controlled by the DAW and each with a separate MIDI channel, of course)
Have you 'hit the roof' with laptop, so that it is clear you need another laptop? Same laptop running few synths, and only changing what you are controlling. Mididings is great for switching mode, but it needs programming, is that a problem? Also sooperlooper might be something that might be interesting to investigate. Use sooperlooper to replace RC505, and softsynths to replace all costly hardware https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HxjjCdTSGU

(sorry if I am asking something that has been answered elsewhere, haven't followed all steps of your saga)

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Re: Expansionssssss

Post by Toejam76 »

"he plays sequences and quietly prepares the next sequence as the current one plays out."

As a hardware option maybe look into the Korg Kaospad. It's a sampler / fx unit that can do excatly that and more and is very intuitive to use and no need to fiddle with the damn mouse on the computer.
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Re: Expansionssssss

Post by LAM »

OccinticLady wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:19 am tought me is that he plays sequences and quietly prepares the next sequence as the current one plays out...
As far I understood in his live setup he's using Ableton MIDI tracks as a sequencer for his synths, then he plays/records the synths output in Ableton audio tracks (applying effects there, so if he wants to change effects or automations he can do it in the audio track).

So, for every synth he has a MIDI track (outgoing) + Audio track (incoming) in Ableton.

If you want to replicate his setup with softsynths/plugins you could just use Ardour (or another DAW) without doing external routing, for every synth you load a synth plugin (or connect an external standalone or Carla instance) and you send its output to an audio track/bus and put the FXs there.

If you want to split between 2 different machines, as it seems to be in your case, your planned setup should also work (unless you have DSP overload problems I don't know if splitting the setup is really useful).

In theory MIDI is not really heavy so, I guess if you have a machine capable of running all the plugins/softsynths you want, it should be able to play them running a DAW or a sequencer directly.

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Re: Expansionssssss

Post by OccinticLady »

Using Ardour (eventually) to do the heavy lifting is a thing waiting to happen. For all its benefits, Seq24 can only kick this can so far.
As mentioned, I have nog really hit the roof of the laptop as yet, safe from the pads with more sustain that can cause an xrun on jack.
It is (after all) a "mere" 32 bit laptop, so if I want to venture deeper, a 64 bit laptop does impose itself in the end.
And...after all, I'm still "embryonically" involved. As it seemed frrom an other post I placed...I dont evenknow how to "write down" the music...it seems...it's not done, just created in the DAW and placed in backup...
Quite a bit to look into it seems...
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Re: Expansionssssss

Post by tavasti »

LAM wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:11 am
OccinticLady wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:19 am tought me is that he plays sequences and quietly prepares the next sequence as the current one plays out...
As far I understood in his live setup he's using Ableton MIDI tracks as a sequencer for his synths, then he plays/records the synths output in Ableton audio tracks (applying effects there, so if he wants to change effects or automations he can do it in the audio track).

So, for every synth he has a MIDI track (outgoing) + Audio track (incoming) in Ableton.

If you want to replicate his setup with softsynths/plugins you could just use Ardour (or another DAW) without doing external routing, for every synth you load a synth plugin (or connect an external standalone or Carla instance) and you send its output to an audio track/bus and put the FXs there.
With Ardour / random DAW, you can't have that live performance thing, where you select which loops play on the fly.

To get something similar functionality, you would need some software for holding multiple midi clips, and have ability to loop them in sync. I think non-sequencer might have such functionality, but not sure.

DAWs, Ableton and Mixcraft have such feature, but they are a) closed source, commercial b) non-linux (but do work with wine)

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Re: Expansionssssss

Post by sysrqer »

Bitwig would be the obvious counterpart. Giada might work but not sure if this is much of a change over seq24.
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Re: Expansionssssss

Post by LAM »

tavasti wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:23 am With Ardour / random DAW, you can't have that live performance thing, where you select which loops play on the fly.

To get something similar functionality, you would need some software for holding multiple midi clips, and have ability to loop them in sync. I think non-sequencer might have such functionality, but not sure.

DAWs, Ableton and Mixcraft have such feature, but they are a) closed source, commercial b) non-linux (but do work with wine)
I was referring to his live setup where he arranged the midi clips of different songs in a timeline for the planned duration of the live set, that can be reproducible using Ardour.

Anyway seq24, sequencer64, seq66, non-sequencer, giada and some other native linux programs have the possibility to launch MIDI clips in sync with the transport, and could be used to mimic the Ableton Live clip launching.

So, in the end while we don't have yet a full FOSS solution for both cases, it's nevertheless possible to combine software to achieve a similar solution.

As a side note seq24/64/66 have a song mode, so they can switch from Live to Song mode and back, never investigated deeply into that, but that's another possibility.

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Re: Expansionssssss

Post by tavasti »

LAM wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:38 am Anyway seq24, sequencer64, seq66, non-sequencer, giada and some other native linux programs have the possibility to launch MIDI clips in sync with the transport, and could be used to mimic the Ableton Live clip launching.

So, in the end while we don't have yet a full FOSS solution for both cases, it's nevertheless possible to combine software to achieve a similar solution.
Ok, that is good to know, in case I try to do something like that!

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