Synths similar to Razor with Dissonance Effects

All your LV2 and LADSPA goodness and more.

Moderators: MattKingUSA, khz

Post Reply
User avatar
GraysonPeddie
Established Member
Posts: 657
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:12 pm
Location: Altha, FL
Been thanked: 6 times
Contact:

Synths similar to Razor with Dissonance Effects

Post by GraysonPeddie »

I came across a video in YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCujIf5eJ2w

From 16:19 in, I saw that there are a couple of additive/dissonance effects described in the video. I like how the harmonics were shifting in frequencies until it gets to a single note. Could ZynAddSubFX do that or is there a synth that can do any kind of additive or dissonance effects? I did a search here but nothing seems to come up.

I must have heard something similar from Michael Jackson called "Another Part of Me" (I love Captain EO).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8k4k2J3Mjo

Could any of the synths in Linux accomplish this?
--Grayson Peddie

Music Interest: New Age w/ a mix of modern smooth jazz, light techno/trance & downtempo -- something Epcot Future World/Tomorrowland-flavored.
eufex
Established Member
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:24 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Synths similar to Razor with Dissonance Effects

Post by eufex »

I dont think you can modulate harmonics in that way in Zyn. The additive engine creates a fixed waveform which you then use via various synthesis methods whether they be subtractive, PM/FM or a combination. You could try to get something similar with PM but PM has its own distinct sound.
You can get that very glassy, shifting sound with Alexander Zolotov’s Virtual ANS, it has a very specific sound and you’re not going to be able to get the Bass sounds etc you can get out of Razor, unless you perhaps layer it with another synth.

If you look at what’s happening for a lot of those sound in the Razor demo though you could get something quite similar sounding using a formant filter or an automated EQ.
I’d check out Surge Synthesiser too, new features are being added all the time and you can get shifting sounds with wavetable etc. I know someone proposed formant oscillators for it a while back.


And Vital which is wavetable with spectral morphing, which might get you exactly what you’re looking for but in a different way, thinking about it.


I use a few additive synths on iOS and the king of Independent additive developers is Virsyn. The plugins they do are Windows Mac only, I have no idea if the work in WINE, I don’t need to as I use the iPAD as a proxy hardware device.

NI Razor is a Reaktor Ensemble btw which I think works in the free Reaktor player. Reaktor USED to work in WINE, I don’t know if it still does?
User avatar
GraysonPeddie
Established Member
Posts: 657
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:12 pm
Location: Altha, FL
Been thanked: 6 times
Contact:

Re: Synths similar to Razor with Dissonance Effects

Post by GraysonPeddie »

Thanks for the list of software synthesizers. I was able to get the sound effect I wanted using ZynAddSubFX.

https://graysonpeddie.com/res/sounds/do ... effect.ogg

I used my AMD Radeon RX 5600 XT GPU for playback of 5.1 surround sound, so you should be able to hear it in all 6 channels if you have a 5.1 surround sound. I produced the sound using Yoshimi with 7 oscillators, each being ope octave apart (in addition to another oscillator in a separate ADsynth). I then added some more voices that are spread apart and some oscillators fluctuate in pitch from the beginning. This is all before settling in the C note and I play the same again but this time in F note.

There's so much potential regarding what Yoshimi can do; however, I don't seem to have fine-grained control over the frequency envelope when transition from the highest frequency to the stable C or F note depending on what I'm playing.

And I'm surprised I am able to play the sound I linked above with 5.1 surround sound. Using Pipewire and Pipewire-Pulse instead of PulseAudio, I am able to disconnect the front speakers including the sub, leaving only the two rear speakers and they sound really good. I gave the rear two speakers a wet-sounding reverb using Calf Reverb.
--Grayson Peddie

Music Interest: New Age w/ a mix of modern smooth jazz, light techno/trance & downtempo -- something Epcot Future World/Tomorrowland-flavored.
eufex
Established Member
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:24 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Synths similar to Razor with Dissonance Effects

Post by eufex »

I think you’re hinting that you’ve put a pitch envelope on 7 oscillators, each playing a sine wave?(I can’t hear your example: on phone atm and it won’t play vorbis files). There’s a lot more going on in Razor than that.
folderol
Established Member
Posts: 2069
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Here, of course!
Has thanked: 224 times
Been thanked: 400 times
Contact:

Re: Synths similar to Razor with Dissonance Effects

Post by folderol »

I don't know about Zyn, but in yoshimi you can get something like this with two AddSynth voices. on one of them set the detune type to E1200, and then MIDI-learn it's fine detune slider to something like the Mod or Pitch wheels (set the 'block' switch in the learned list).
The Yoshimi guy {apparently now an 'elderly'}
User avatar
GraysonPeddie
Established Member
Posts: 657
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:12 pm
Location: Altha, FL
Been thanked: 6 times
Contact:

Re: Synths similar to Razor with Dissonance Effects

Post by GraysonPeddie »

eufex wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 12:09 pm I think you’re hinting that you’ve put a pitch envelope on 7 oscillators, each playing a sine wave?(I can’t hear your example: on phone atm and it won’t play vorbis files). There’s a lot more going on in Razor than that.
It's a complex sawtooth waveform. Firefox supports Ogg Vorbis.
--Grayson Peddie

Music Interest: New Age w/ a mix of modern smooth jazz, light techno/trance & downtempo -- something Epcot Future World/Tomorrowland-flavored.
eufex
Established Member
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:24 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Synths similar to Razor with Dissonance Effects

Post by eufex »

Yeah, I think I'll download and install firefox onto an iphone just so I can hear a sawtooth wave.??? Really :lol:
What on earth has made you choose Vorbis when you're sharing a file you want people to easily listen to?
folderol
Established Member
Posts: 2069
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Here, of course!
Has thanked: 224 times
Been thanked: 400 times
Contact:

Re: Synths similar to Razor with Dissonance Effects

Post by folderol »

What on earth makes anyone chose mp3, when it's such a crappy format with more artifacts than you can throw a stick at
FTFY
P.S.
Why should anyone assume you'd want to listen to music related audio on a phone?
The Yoshimi guy {apparently now an 'elderly'}
User avatar
GraysonPeddie
Established Member
Posts: 657
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:12 pm
Location: Altha, FL
Been thanked: 6 times
Contact:

Re: Synths similar to Razor with Dissonance Effects

Post by GraysonPeddie »

folderol wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:45 am What on earth makes anyone chose mp3, when it's such a crappy format with more artifacts than you can throw a stick at
FTFY
P.S.
Why should anyone assume you'd want to listen to music related audio on a phone?
LOL! I guess his iCrap does not play open source media content such as FLAC, WebM, and Ogg Vorbos. When it comes to smartphones, I suppose only Android/PinePhone/Librem 5 can do that and Apple only prefers proprietary, patent-encumbered formats. :D

Let alone Apple Safari 13 and older does not support WebP as an image format. :( As much as I don't want to digress from my topic, as a web developer I could forgo the use of JPEG and switch over to WebP just to leave Apple Safari behind. LOL! :D But enough digressing from my topic. :)
--Grayson Peddie

Music Interest: New Age w/ a mix of modern smooth jazz, light techno/trance & downtempo -- something Epcot Future World/Tomorrowland-flavored.
Post Reply