Good compressor for mixbus

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martibs
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Good compressor for mixbus

Post by martibs »

I'm quite new to dynamics processing, and I'm in the process of trying to learn compression. I find experimenting with different kinds of compressors on individual tracks to be challenging, but quite rewarding - just load up a compressor, mess about with the settings, and see whether it sounds ok or not. In the end there are many other parameters that influences the sound of a single instrument.

However, on the mixbus I struggle more. It's very easy to mess up the sound, and I'm also often not sure what qualities the compressor is supposed to add to the mix. When studying online guides, there are all these references to different types of compressors, and boutique plugins are often emulators of vintage gear. The Linux compatible plugins doesn't come with these references.

I feel like it would be easier to learn and experiment if I knew more what to expect from the compressor. Can anyone recommend a good Linux-native compressor plugin for use on the mixbus? And maybe some words on what "kind" of compression the algorithm is based on?
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Re: Good compressor for mixbus

Post by tavasti »

How Mixbus is different from other DAWs?

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Re: Good compressor for mixbus

Post by fsciarra62 »

I think you should try to use Mixbus32C for a mastering to understand how it sounds different.
There is more “air”, more sparkling. I use Ardour and Bitwig and for me there is a non neglectible difference.

A good compressor I use with really good results is Presswerk by U-He. Actually I own all U-He plugins and I find then just fantastic. They are linux Native vst2 and Vst3 (some vst3 are under revision like uhbik).

Hope this helps,

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Re: Good compressor for mixbus

Post by sysrqer »

LSP compressor has a few different options for compression types.
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Re: Good compressor for mixbus

Post by WforWoollyMammoth »

Definitely try U-he Presswerk. It's not cheap, but there's a demo that's fairly non-intrusive and allows you to get a good idea of what the plugin can do.

I haven't really gotten along with Mixbus myself. I know what people mean when they say it introduces "air" in their mixes, but I always end up adding too much colouration with the controls on the channel strips. The widgets are rather small and I'm not crazy about the character of the saturation it adds. There's a saturation control on Presswerk too and I like what it does to the source material more.
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Re: Good compressor for mixbus

Post by thumbknuckle »

Pretty sure he is talking about the mixbus, as in the stereo mix. Not the Mixbus as in the Harrison product.
martibs wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 11:50 am I'm quite new to dynamics processing, and I'm in the process of trying to learn compression. I find experimenting with different kinds of compressors on individual tracks to be challenging, but quite rewarding - just load up a compressor, mess about with the settings, and see whether it sounds ok or not. In the end there are many other parameters that influences the sound of a single instrument.

However, on the mixbus I struggle more. It's very easy to mess up the sound, and I'm also often not sure what qualities the compressor is supposed to add to the mix. When studying online guides, there are all these references to different types of compressors, and boutique plugins are often emulators of vintage gear. The Linux compatible plugins doesn't come with these references.

I feel like it would be easier to learn and experiment if I knew more what to expect from the compressor. Can anyone recommend a good Linux-native compressor plugin for use on the mixbus? And maybe some words on what "kind" of compression the algorithm is based on?
What is it you don't like about the sound of your mix that you are trying to improve?

If you don't have an answer to that question you probably don't need a compressor.

I realize this is a radical idea in this day and age of LOUD SHINY MIXES, but it really is okay not to compress stuff.
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Re: Good compressor for mixbus

Post by tavasti »

thumbknuckle wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 3:00 pm Pretty sure he is talking about the mixbus, as in the stereo mix. Not the Mixbus as in the Harrison product.
Ok, yeah, that would explain a lot. My bad :-)
And maybe also bit Harrison to blame, why they name product with such commonly used term.
Last edited by tavasti on Fri May 08, 2020 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Good compressor for mixbus

Post by JamesPeters »

sysrqer wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 2:22 pm LSP compressor has a few different options for compression types.
The dynamics processors in that set of plugins are very flexible. The Compressor alone is one of the most flexible I've used on any OS. The only thing which might make a person question their usefulness is that they're not specifically designed to emulate the workflow of a certain piece of hardware. They can get results like various hardware compressors, but you have to know how to dial the settings or be willing to use your ears.

@ martibs: I just did a search for "learn to use a compressor", and I think this page is well worth reading:

https://www.musicianonamission.com/how- ... -top-tips/

There are some videos as well. Maybe read the entire page first, then watch the videos.

Becoming familiar with compression can take a long time. That should speed things up. Like the author of that page, I also recommend sticking with a single compressor while becoming familiar with the process. The LSP "Compressor Stereo" is a comfortable recommendation for this since it can do so much.

Here's a link to the LSP plugin set:

https://lsp-plug.in/
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Re: Good compressor for mixbus

Post by martibs »

WforWoollyMammoth wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 2:53 pm Definitely try U-he Presswerk. It's not cheap, but there's a demo that's fairly non-intrusive and allows you to get a good idea of what the plugin can do.
Cool, I'll check it out. Hopefully they have a trial license.
thumbknuckle wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 3:00 pm Pretty sure he is talking about the mixbus, as in the stereo mix. Not the Mixbus as in the Harrison product.
That's correct, I'm talking about the stereo bus/2bus/mixbus, not Mixbus as written with a capital M.
thumbknuckle wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 3:00 pm
What is it you don't like about the sound of your mix that you are trying to improve?

If you don't have an answer to that question you probably don't need a compressor.

I realize this is a radical idea in this day and age of LOUD SHINY MIXES, but it really is okay not to compress stuff.
Would you give me the same advice if I was asking about a delay plugin to learn using delays? "If you don't know what sound you want from a delay, don't bother"?
JamesPeters wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 3:47 pm
sysrqer wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 2:22 pm LSP compressor has a few different options for compression types.
The dynamics processors in that set of plugins are very flexible. The Compressor alone is one of the most flexible I've used on any OS. The only thing which might make a person question their usefulness is that they're not specifically designed to emulate the workflow of a certain piece of hardware. They can get results like various hardware compressors, but you have to know how to dial the settings or be willing to use your ears.

@ martibs: I just did a search for "learn to use a compressor", and I think this page is well worth reading:

https://www.musicianonamission.com/how- ... -top-tips/

There are some videos as well. Maybe read the entire page first, then watch the videos.

Becoming familiar with compression can take a long time. That should speed things up. Like the author of that page, I also recommend sticking with a single compressor while becoming familiar with the process. The LSP "Compressor Stereo" is a comfortable recommendation for this since it can do so much.

Here's a link to the LSP plugin set:

https://lsp-plug.in/
Thanks, I'll definately check that out!
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Re: Good compressor for mixbus

Post by thumbknuckle »

martibs wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 4:22 pm
Would you give me the same advice if I was asking about a delay plugin to learn using delays? "If you don't know what sound you want from a delay, don't bother"?
If you wanted to know how to use a delay I would ask what you were trying to do with it, sure.
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Re: Good compressor for mixbus

Post by martibs »

I would like to add a delay effect to my signal. And in this case, I want to control the dynamics on my stereo mix.

How can I know specifically what I want to achieve when I don't have the experience to know what the application is capable of? That's what I'm trying to learn here, come on.
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Re: Good compressor for mixbus

Post by merlyn »

There is a school of thought that says don't put anything on the master bus -- leave that for the mastering stage. It's not a hard and fast rule. @bluebell does mastering and mixing at the same time, as he described here : viewtopic.php?p=106569#p106569

There is an idea, though , to mix and master in separate stages. I would consider processing the whole stereo bus as mastering.
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Re: Good compressor for mixbus

Post by bluebell »

merlyn wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 5:34 pm There is a school of thought that says don't put anything on the master bus -- leave that for the mastering stage. It's not a hard and fast rule. @bluebell does mastering and mixing at the same time, as he described here : viewtopic.php?p=106569#p106569

There is an idea, though , to mix and master in separate stages. I would consider processing the whole stereo bus as mastering.
I tend to switch off Multiband Compressor and Limiter in the master bus as long as I am mixing and recording.

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Re: Good compressor for mixbus

Post by martibs »

I'm not sure exactly where mixing ends and mastering begins, so in that sense I guess do a bit of both as well. Grouping things the way @bluebell does is probably good practice anyhow.
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Re: Good compressor for mixbus

Post by GMaq »

Hi,

I also mix and master at the same time with Ardour and occasionally Mixbus (the DAW)

The problem with plugins in general and probably especially in the FOSS/Linux world is that many people are coding plugins for fun and to learn which is great, some people take existing code that has been rattling around for ages and put a nice GUI on it and call it done, if the code is good, the plugin is good... if the code was somebody's Google Summer of Code project that was never finished or was never properly informed by good DSP algorithms and knowledge then it is possible with a good GUI you have a "lipstick on a pig" scenario..

So with FOSS stuff you have to be able to find the diamonds in the dust so to speak, some FOSS projects I'm aware of (I obviously don't know everyone and their intentions and can only speak for plugins I've used myself with more than a passing glance) where the developer is very experienced and deep into their DSP theory (with regard to Compressors and Limiters) are:

sadko4u's LSP Plugins
Robin Gareus' x42 Plugins (the Compressor and Digital Peak Limiter code are from Fons Adriaensen and that dude is a DSP genius!!)
Damien Zammit's Zam Plugins

From there some Commercial options that aren't terribly expensive are:

OvertoneDSP (DYN 500, FC-70) - The developer was employed by Solid State Logic for many years and knows every transistor and cathode of SSL stuff and other classic tube gear like Pultec by heart... Tremendous plugins at a very reasonable price!!

Uhe... I add my voice the praise for Presswerk, it's a swiss army knife of incredibly musical sounding compressors and Limiters. I personally use it all the time..

Lastly if you don't mind Windows VST plugins under Linux there are lots of Bus Compressor/Limiter choices there that work well with Wine

Thomas Mundt's - Loudmax (Free)
Sknote's - Disto
Klanghelm's compressors (Free)
Melda Plugins (Free for the basic functionality)
Fabfilter (expensive but to be honest VERY good stuff and quite stable with Linux via Wine)
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