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New Dragonfly Reverb beta release v2.9.0

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:30 am
by Michael Willis
I know, the world probably doesn't need yet another plate reverb...

...BUT WHEN DID A SUPERVILLAIN EVER CARE ABOUT WHAT THE WORLD NEEDS?

Mwahahaha!

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Please download the beta release, test it, and let me know your feedback:

https://github.com/michaelwillis/dragon ... 2.9.0-beta

As usual, don't use this for anything serious yet, there will probably be several adjustments as people test it and report how it goes for them. Future releases are not likely to be backward compatible.

On the other hand, the Hall and Room reverbs are also included in this beta release, but are considered stable and are virtually unchanged from before.

Re: New Dragonfly Reverb beta release v2.9.0

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:42 am
by funkmuscle
Don't care about Windows and Mac because they've got it all. Linux need another plate verb done right. We're a small community so more of you devs making plugins for us, the better. I will test tomorrow!

Re: New Dragonfly Reverb beta release v2.9.0

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:28 pm
by ufug
funkmuscle wrote: Linux need another plate verb done right.
YES. The OvertoneDSP is the only native plate I like. Looking forward to giving this a thonk. Thanks Michael!

Re: New Dragonfly Reverb beta release v2.9.0

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:17 pm
by funkmuscle
ufug wrote:
funkmuscle wrote: Linux need another plate verb done right.
YES. The OvertoneDSP is the only native plate I like. Looking forward to giving this a thonk. Thanks Michael!
Oh yes I completely forgot about overtone.

Re: New Dragonfly Reverb beta release v2.9.0

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:33 pm
by Michael Willis
funkmuscle wrote:Linux need another plate verb done right.
ufug wrote:Looking forward to giving this a thonk.
Please do tell, what do you want in a plate reverb? Freeverb3 actually has more than one plate algorithm; I picked one called STRev because it seemed to have more interesting parameters.

Here's the documentation for STRev:
http://freeverb3vst.osdn.jp/tutorial/tu ... trev.shtml

The other candidate was NRev:
http://freeverb3vst.osdn.jp/tutorial/tu ... nrev.shtml

NRev's documentation is even more sparse than STRev, and doesn't seem to have any modulation parameters. I haven't actually done any evaluation of how the two plates sound compared to each other, so if somebody cares to load them both using a vst wine bridge or something, it would be good to get some opinions.

Edit: I forgot to mention, I mostly just made up the presets by monkeying around with the numbers. I have no idea how suitable they are for anything, so I'm open to suggestions on how to improve the presets. "Phat Plate" in particular was kind of a joke after I dialed in "Narrow Plate", but I kind of like it now so maybe it will stick.

Re: New Dragonfly Reverb beta release v2.9.0

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:09 pm
by AlexTheBassist
Michael Willis wrote:so if somebody cares to load them both using a vst wine bridge or something, it would be good to get some opinions.
Did you think about having them both? I know it's not a simple task to get it all together, but switching the algorithm depending on what you want would be neat, just like it is in Valhalla reverbs.

Re: New Dragonfly Reverb beta release v2.9.0

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:16 pm
by AlexTheBassist
Michael Willis wrote:Please do tell, what do you want in a plate reverb?
A thing that would be cool to have is some control on early reflections. Most plates either don't produce any at all, or don't let to control them in an obvious way. But, according to documentation, STRev doesn't have an early section at all, while NVerb just doesn't have enough parameters to make it versatile.

Re: New Dragonfly Reverb beta release v2.9.0

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:19 pm
by Michael Willis
AlexTheBassist wrote:Did you think about having them both? I know it's not a simple task to get it all together, but switching the algorithm depending on what you want would be neat, just like it is in Valhalla reverbs.
Are you thinking both in the same plugin? I considered that a little bit. Dragonfly Hall and Room both include two algorithms each (early and late), with a slider to control the level of each algorithm, so I could follow the same pattern in the Plate plugin. I wonder if it would sound good to blend the two algorithms?

Re: New Dragonfly Reverb beta release v2.9.0

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:20 pm
by Michael Willis
AlexTheBassist wrote:A thing that would be cool to have is some control on early reflections.
I didn't think early reflections were relevant in a plate reverb. I suppose I could drop in the same ER algorithm that is used in the Room and Hall plugins.

Re: New Dragonfly Reverb beta release v2.9.0

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:41 pm
by merlyn
Alex isn't often right but he's wrong again. Early reflections are not relevant to a plate. The original plate reverb is an EMT 140 and it's a plate of metal LOL :

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Re: New Dragonfly Reverb beta release v2.9.0

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:43 pm
by funkmuscle
I've downloaded this but all I got are the Hall and room versions.

Re: New Dragonfly Reverb beta release v2.9.0

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:51 pm
by AlexTheBassist
Michael Willis wrote:Are you thinking both in the same plugin? I considered that a little bit.
Yeah, exactly. Why not, in the first place?
Michael Willis wrote:I didn't think early reflections were relevant in a plate reverb
Yet they are. Not that it's something very crucial, but lots of digital plates sound like shit because there are no ways to control how exactly the signal ”hits” the virtual plate. Late reflections on plates are almost always good, but the early part is what we perceive as most important spatial characteristics: the “size”, “spaciousness”, and such. Having that adjustable, even in a limited manner, leads to much more sonic possibilities, and that's what puts some commercial plate reverbs well above their competitors.

Re: New Dragonfly Reverb beta release v2.9.0

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:19 pm
by AlexTheBassist
merlyn wrote:Alex isn't often right but he's wrong again
Stick this mantra up your brown eye. Repeating this won't make you play or mix better than me, nor it does make me wrong in anything, because
merlyn wrote:Early reflections are not relevant to a plate
is just another way to say “I'm a moron” without stating that explicitly. Here you have it on a plate algorithm:
The first version of the NRev. This includes some small early reflections
And a lot of Valhalla's digital plates use early reflection models. This is done in order to smooth out linear character of a digital plate, making it behave much more like a real plate in a real reverb unit. In fact, a plate does respond to both environment and signal in a fashion a lot similar to early reflections. If IRL it would behave as you think it does, any digital plate could easily compete with a real one, which obviously isn't true.
Michael Willis wrote:I wonder if it would sound good to blend the two algorithms?
Why not? After all, it's just for fun.

Also, a thing to consider is tail chorusing, but I don't know your level of expertise regarding DSP, nor I know at the point if it's already there in one of the algorithms.

Re: New Dragonfly Reverb beta release v2.9.0

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:02 pm
by Michael Willis
funkmuscle wrote:I've downloaded this but all I got are the Hall and room versions.
After reading this, I checked DragonflyReverb-Linux-64bit-v2.9.0-beta.tgz, and verified that it contains DragonflyPlateReverb-vst.so and DragonflyPlateReverb.lv2 ... Are you saying that your plugin host doesn't list the plate? What host are you using? I have only tested this in Ardour.
AlexTheBassist wrote:Also, a thing to consider is tail chorusing, but I don't know your level of expertise regarding DSP, nor I know at the point if it's already there in one of the algorithms.
I still don't know a lot about DSP, mostly I'm just wrapping the algorithms as they already exist in Freeverb3. If I understand correctly, the spin and wander parameters control tail chorus modulation, but I could be wrong.

For now I'm going to sidestep the ER argument by saying that the next project I want to do is a stand-alone ER plugin. With that, you could apply some ER to a signal and then send it through the plate algorithm. It looks like Freeverb3's ER algorithm has capabilities beyond what was exposed in Hibiki and ProG, so I'm interested to see what I can do with it.

Re: New Dragonfly Reverb beta release v2.9.0

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:09 pm
by merlyn
@Alex : You're a bullshitter and you've been caught out. :lol: