Please recommend a non-JACK Linux VST host for plugin chaining

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bhilmers
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Please recommend a non-JACK Linux VST host for plugin chaining

Postby bhilmers » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:14 am

EDIT: Carla VST works in OcenAudio, though not all plugins work as expected when routed through Carla. Also, only the previews work and the audio will not processed.

The recent discussion "Why run Windows software on Linux?" has prompted me to look at breaking my WINE habit. The biggest hurdle in my Linux only workflow is replacing Wavosaur. I've been doing simple edits in OcenAudio for years, but it lacks the ability to create a plugin chain. I can load plugins like Xhip effects one at a time, but ideally I would like to load a host that can route several Linux VSTs. Are there any non-JACK solutions? I am trying to avoid opening Ardour for something a good audio editor could do.

Thanks in advance for your help.
Last edited by bhilmers on Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

antiesen
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Re: Please recommend a non-JACK Linux VST host for plugin chaining

Postby antiesen » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:15 am

Did you try carla.vst inside ocenaudio?
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bhilmers
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Re: Please recommend a non-JACK Linux VST host for plugin chaining

Postby bhilmers » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:01 am

antiesen wrote:Did you try carla.vst inside ocenaudio?

I had not! With your advice I downloaded the standalone Carla binary and was able to use it inside OcenAudio. The results were mixed. Some plugins worked, but Carla would not launch the GUI. Calf plugins did not work at all with is extremely surprising. However, I was able to get a bare minimum amount of plugins to work correctly in a chain, and that's a good start! Thanks for making me aware of the VST version of Carla.

If anyone has more to add I would love to hear other options. This is good progress so far.

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AlexTheBassist
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Re: Please recommend a non-JACK Linux VST host for plugin chaining

Postby AlexTheBassist » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:41 am

bhilmers wrote:Are there any non-JACK solutions?

People, why are you all so much against JACK? Did it rape your dog back in the days? If you need to route audio between applications, it's a must.
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bhilmers
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Re: Please recommend a non-JACK Linux VST host for plugin chaining

Postby bhilmers » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:39 pm

AlexTheBassist wrote:
bhilmers wrote:Are there any non-JACK solutions?

People, why are you all so much against JACK? ... If you need to route audio between applications, it's a must.

While that's true, I don't need to route between multiple audio applications. I want to extend functionality within one application. Also, from my unfortunate experience, JACK has caused just as many problems as it's solved. This is why I prefer the monolithic app model over the modular OS one.

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Re: Please recommend a non-JACK Linux VST host for plugin chaining

Postby AlexTheBassist » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:08 am

bhilmers wrote:JACK has caused just as many problems as it's solved.

What are them exactly? I use JACK for, like, 10 years already (first as a musician, then as an engineer), tested it in a lot of environments and applications, and it was awesome. What was always problematic to me is using ALSA backend in Ardour. It always was significantly heavier on CPU than properly (and once) tuned JACK and having everything routed through it, including Pulseaudio.
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Re: Please recommend a non-JACK Linux VST host for plugin chaining

Postby AlexTheBassist » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:23 am

A host I can recommend is Jost. If it's somehow possible to route it to OcenAudio in ALSA (I didn't check, because I use GWC for noise removal and Ardour/Mixbus for everything else), then it will be the most useful for you. It has both JACK and ALSA support and a cool Surface feature that lets you to control some plugin parameters outside their own GUI, like Ardour/Mixbus does it in channel strip. Remember that package in KXStudio repos is currently broken, so it's better to build it yourself.
Kde Neon
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Presonus Eris E4.5
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antiesen
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Re: Please recommend a non-JACK Linux VST host for plugin chaining

Postby antiesen » Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:26 pm

Oh I would recommend not wasting time to get jost to work. Active it was developed almost 10 years ago and even at that time it was not really finished or stable.
Because of carla and plugin-guis: could not a gui be opened at all? Excuse the question - did you see that there are buttons for both generic and plugin own gui?
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bhilmers
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Re: Please recommend a non-JACK Linux VST host for plugin chaining

Postby bhilmers » Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:54 am

AlexTheBassist wrote:
bhilmers wrote:JACK has caused just as many problems as it's solved.
What are them exactly?

An adequate answer would be significantly off topic, but thanks for your help.

antiesen wrote:Oh I would recommend not wasting time to get jost to work. Active it was developed almost 10 years ago and even at that time it was not really finished or stable.

Thanks, the lack of development is why I did not try it. There is no incentive for me to spend too much time setting up a native Linux workflow when WINE works well enough. The goal is to make a smooth transition to Linux only. I'm close!

antiesen wrote:Because of carla and plugin-guis: could not a gui be opened at all? Excuse the question - did you see that there are buttons for both generic and plugin own gui?

I tried only three sets of plugins:

LSP, worked exactly as expected.
Calf, the GUI would launch, but would not process a signal. In rack mode, the ON button would turn off after a few seconds.
Xhip, these plugins work and I can adjust settings in rack view, but I cannot launch the plugin's GUI.

I am unfamiliar with Carla. Right now I am loading it from a folder owned by my user, not root. Does this matter? Where are the log files located? Is there any documentation?

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Re: Please recommend a non-JACK Linux VST host for plugin chaining

Postby antiesen » Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:13 am

Yes, you can start Carla from the home folder. The newer pre-compiled binaries are meant for that.
Additionaly copy the contained folder: carla.vst into your vst folder - so probably
home/your_user/.vst
In Ocenaudio - if not already done - activate the vst support and add the vst path
So for this example: home/your_user/.vst
The next launch of Ocenaudio Carla should be under Effects / Vst / falktx
Unfortunately, there seems to be no documentation for carla.
The log files are in /home/your_user/.config/falkTX/
Because of the Xhip plugins, I have to confirm that they do not work in carla.
I do not have calf, I'll try it later.
This was made to end all partys - Einstürzende Neubauten 1985

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bhilmers
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Re: Please recommend a non-JACK Linux VST host for plugin chaining

Postby bhilmers » Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:01 pm

antiesen wrote:I do not have calf, I'll try it later.

Yes, thank you. I've done all of the above and it's nice to hear some confirmation. I hope there is a solution to the Calf problem, those are some great plugins.

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Re: Please recommend a non-JACK Linux VST host for plugin chaining [solved]

Postby antiesen » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:40 am

Sorry, not solved. I realized that with carla.vst only preview works, the effects are not be applied.
This was made to end all partys - Einstürzende Neubauten 1985

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bhilmers
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Re: Please recommend a non-JACK Linux VST host for plugin chaining

Postby bhilmers » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:31 am

Yes, I was bummed to discover the audio is not processed through Carla. One Day Linux Audio will catch up to the 1990s! :(

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Re: Please recommend a non-JACK Linux VST host for plugin chaining

Postby Baggypants » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:14 pm

Oh grow up you whining old bag. The 90's was nearly all MIDI driven multi timbrel boxes mastering to DAT.

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bhilmers
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Re: Please recommend a non-JACK Linux VST host for plugin chaining

Postby bhilmers » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:17 am

Check out this flex: Here is my Windows 98SE laptop I keep around. It shows Sound Forge 5 with a real-time audio plugin chain -- something we don't have yet in any Linux audio editor.

https://i.imgur.com/oEGzyUr.jpg

I really, REALLY want to ditch Windows completely, but I still can't. This kind of functionality seems so simple and sensible, I just don't understand why no one has written it for a native Nix app. My only option is to fire up a DAW (overkill, time consuming) or do a modular JACK thing (weak session management). I'm OK with people calling me a whiner. I'm a professional. I make money off audio. I want good shit and I'm willing to pay. I donate to several FOSS audio projects, but so far I'm coming up empty.


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