Loomer's Architect announced

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tripomatic
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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby tripomatic » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:07 pm

I think it could be interesting.
For me it like Max for live, But it's daw independant.
There are great devices build with max for live, But it's only usable in ableton. If Nice devices are gonna get build with architect, anyone would be capable to run those devices with architect plugin, even if those are build on Windows or OSX.

And afaik it's capable of lot more than max4live can.

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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby jonetsu » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:10 pm

What kind of devices can be built in such a way ?

Cheers.

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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby lilith » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:12 pm

This looks indeed interesting. There's a special price of Bitwig until Monday and Architect will be out on Monday too. I think Architect + Reaper could be a great and even more versatile alternative to Bitwig.
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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby jonetsu » Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:20 pm

Reaper is already a DAW, so Architect could complement it. However, so far I do not see that much usefulness in Architect except for evolving MIDI sequences. Evolving in which way ? Don't know, but evolving. That looks dynamic and creative.

On the other hand Usine Hollyhock, for having seen a demo or two, since it does video and video FX (don't know about Architect) has more immediate usefulness. For the rest it seems that Architect caters to a crowd who already known fully what to do with it but are not so keen as to give practical down-to-earth examples in a DAW :)

Maybe a certain amount of what Architect can do can already be done with automation, modulation (Bitwig) and a good set of plugins with some being able to do 'crazy' things ?

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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby jonetsu » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:13 am

Another thing in Usine Hollyhock is the physical modeling. I think Architect has that too.

At 0:51 in this short demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdKidV1ho-E

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lilith
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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby lilith » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:41 am

jonetsu wrote:Another thing in Usine Hollyhock is the physical modeling. I think Architect has that too.

At 0:51 in this short demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdKidV1ho-E


It doesn't run under Linux though ...
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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby jonetsu » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:45 am

lilith wrote: It doesn't run under Linux though ...


I don't know, I haven't tried.

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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby lilith » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:47 am

jonetsu wrote:
lilith wrote: It doesn't run under Linux though ...


I don't know, I haven't tried.


Maybe with Wine, but from what I saw on the website it's not working out of the box.
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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby jonetsu » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:56 am

Now I have tried. There's no installation, simply execute. Sounds are made, things are moving on the resizeable UI. Looks like this in LM 18 KDE:

usineHollyhock.jpg


Video is not that great or maybe it's the FXs. In any case Usine Hollyhock is an application, not a VST plugin. I would rather prefer a VST plugin.

usineHollyhock2.jpg


The impression I have - and most often I base any further exploration on that impression - is that this is a tool that sits between academia and modern art installations and has it's own little complex world and UI in which users for whatever reason would not use a regular DAW because it's too limiting or because they have lights and video to control for their exhibition and Usine provides an integrated package to do that. Also maybe because there's a need to create sounds 'out of this world' that no ordinary synth - how fancy it can be - can create because artistically they want to move one knob and it goes bzzzzziiiinnng with the video and a dimming light to express how we are dependent on technology. Usine has an interface builder so it's possible to set it up for an exhibition and have someone steer Usine during visiting hours using the crafted interface. Or maybe they want to split musical atoms in four and 1/8 and transmute them in order to show the complexity of multi universes as they relate to the fate of the Rohingyas exiled in NYC.

OK. I guess it's fairly easy to say that I won't be pursuing this avenue. For one I have the clear impression that Bitwig along with a certain number of good synths, audio processing of various kind, a drum machine and a sequencer does provide much more than I need to create music. And secondly the kind of more or less abstract soundtrack that might exploit fully the noise that a RC circuit can make is a bit outdated in 2018. But that's just me. I currently find no reason at all to get into this complex application. I would rather get into a VCV rack when spending time is concerned.

This said, I'm looking forward to try the Architect demo, most probably tomorrow afternoon.

Cheers.
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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby sysrqer » Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:44 am

I'm not really sure how this is relevant. You have stated a number of times that you don't know what Architect does or what the point of it is but you make a comparison to something else that you also don't seem sure what the use is and that is not native to linux.

You mention VCV rack, the concept of Architect is similar but for midi.

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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby jonetsu » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:45 pm

sysrqer wrote:I'm not really sure how this is relevant. You have stated a number of times that you don't know what Architect does or what the point of it is but you make a comparison to something else that you also don't seem sure what the use is and that is not native to linux.


The comparison with Usine Hollyhock, as well as with Keykit that I mentioned previously, was made by people on KVR's Loomer forum in noting that Architect has similar functionality. One said that he did not like Usine's UI so he's looking forward to Architect. You know that people in the Loomer KVR forum have been following this development for years and Colin was, is, reporting frequently about it.

The relevancy would be in trying to circumvent what are the practical uses for Architect in a convivial manner, if not funny at times. Undoubtedly there are. One would not spend so much time developing it and selling it for approx. 144£ for less than a good plethora of tangible uses.

I do have this reaction of whoa! Look at that new plugin, must be amazing ! All that work ! All this UI, interface design, and so on so forth. But then, what are really the practical uses ? Not furnished with vague in-the-know allusions but in real down-to-earth examples and use cases. As for me this is the first time I see an audio/MIDI application/plugin that people seem to have 'problems' in describing very practical uses while still maintaining a drone of amazement about it.

sysrqer wrote:You mention VCV rack, the concept of Architect is similar but for midi.


See what I mean ?

Very precisely what will Architect provide to a musician (as opposed to sound designer, plugin designer or even live musician (eg. live coding aspect of Architect)) that's not already available with a good set of audio processing (especially the full range of Melda production plugins with the extensive modulation, multi parameter and highly flexible multi band processing in many of them), soft synth plugins of various nature, and automation and modulation as provided for instance by Bitwig. The following text is the official Architect brief description from Colin:

"What is Architect? Architect is a modular MIDI toolkit, which you can use to build MIDI generating, sequencing, and processing devices using a visual flow-based programming language. It has a collection of over 300 built-in modules, ranging from the big - analogue-style modular step sequencers and Lua script modules - down to the small - bitwise manipulators and mathematical functions - and everything in between. Devices can be exported as macros, shared, or re-used in further projects. "

In no way what I have written is detrimental to Architect and should not be taken as such. I am looking forward to try the demo later on and browse any documentation. I have many Loomer plugins that I appreciate. I'm just trying to find out in advance what are the practical uses and thus doing, make some comparisons with similar products. Not only in advance, but to get practical examples from people so I can align the initial exploration within the time frame of the demo. Alas, not many of these.

Maybe Architect will prove to be quite the expressive creative tool.

Cheers.

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sysrqer
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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby sysrqer » Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:30 pm

jonetsu wrote:"What is Architect? Architect is a modular MIDI toolkit, which you can use to build MIDI generating, sequencing, and processing devices using a visual flow-based programming language. It has a collection of over 300 built-in modules, ranging from the big - analogue-style modular step sequencers and Lua script modules - down to the small - bitwise manipulators and mathematical functions - and everything in between. Devices can be exported as macros, shared, or re-used in further projects. "

I'm just trying to find out in advance what are the practical uses and thus doing, make some comparisons with similar products. Not only in advance, but to get practical examples from people so I can align the initial exploration within the time frame of the demo. Alas, not many of these.

You've just posted a perfect description, I'm not sure what you're looking for. Take VCV for example. If you want to have an oscillator routed directly to the output then you can. But you can do a whole lot more which is only really limited by your imagination. It's the same with pure data or supercollider, it's next to impossible to say 'this is the use case' because it can be whatever you want it to be. As I mentioned before, you could create a scale or a chord preset, as a simple example. You could create a really complex drum machine that uses probabilities to trigger sounds, or split your midi keyboard in to a different instrument per octave. You can use it to sequence your hardware. You may not have any use for it at all and if you can't think of any possibilities after reading the company's description then you might be one of these people.

Look at the videos of what you can do with expensive sequencers such as the ones from Elektron, it might give you some ideas.

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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby khz » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:27 am

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=517474

c/p:
Welcome to Architect, and thank you for being part of the Architect beta test. A beta software
product is not quite a finished software product, and as such does not necessarily represent
the quality of the final release: features may be missing, and bugs may be present.

Architect is a modular MIDI toolkit and music production environment for macOS, Windows,
and Linux. Similar to the classic modular synths, you build patches from small modules that
work together to generate pieces impossible to conceive of using conventional compositional
techniques.

Image

The most recent beta uploads will always be found here. As new beta builds become available, I will archive the older builds here so as anyone can downgrade if newer builds introduce show-stopping bugs.

The most recent copy of the quick-start guide (PDF) can be found here.

During the beta phase, Architect will be available at a discounted "early-bird" price, 25% of the standard price of £140 + VAT. You can purchase Architect directly from us here.

Happy Architecting (and Happy new year too.)
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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby davephillips » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:23 pm

I took a quick look at it this morning (x86_64 version). My impression is that it's a graphical patching environment similar to Pd/Max/Usine, complete with timeline, plugin support, mixer, and other amenities typically associated with DAWs.

Do I need it ? Pd pretty much offers most if not all of its low-level operations and Bitwig has a fairly decent MIDI workspace. However, my first impression is that Architect has a *lot* of functions and tools, perhaps including some not found in those other worthy programs. I'll need to spend more time with it to know how well it competes with Pd, for example.

Why would I need it ? Well, as jonetsu remarked, this sort of software is probably going to appeal first to the experimental types, so I wouldn't mind playing with it just to see what I might come up with that I wouldn't have come up with in Pd or Bitwig. The price is a little high for me now, but the sale is awfully enticing.

It is something to consider, I'll just have to evaluate the financial scene here before I purchase it.

Best,

dp

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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby jonetsu » Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:22 pm

Following the QS guide, I got to the mono sequencer part with MIDI host output. Then it stopped rather there because:

1) Architect will crash when playing along a Windows VST (wine-staging, linvst)

2) For the last 8 or 10 times it was launched, the Architect UI did not show up.

Colin will send me a debug version.

Cheers.


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