Loomer's Architect announced

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AlbertoZ
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Loomer's Architect announced

Postby AlbertoZ » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:55 am

Loomer, one of the audio companies that supports Linux since many years, has announced "Architect", a modular Midi Toolkit:

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=517104

Look at the specifications, this is a real beast. It will be available within end of December, after years of development.

Alberto

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sysrqer
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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby sysrqer » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:10 pm

Wow that looks really interesting, can't wait to try it.

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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby jonetsu » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:41 pm

Looks like it can do a lot in a well-designed way. And it runs on Linux. Problem is, I'm not sure what it is exactly. What will it bring to music creation ?

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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby sysrqer » Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:40 pm

jonetsu wrote:Looks like it can do a lot in a well-designed way. And it runs on Linux. Problem is, I'm not sure what it is exactly. What will it bring to music creation ?

Look at the screenshots, it looks to be a whole environment. It seems to have full sequencing capabilities but much more besides. From what I can tell it encompasses all things midi related from straight midi recording and automation to modular mayhem like pure data to live coding like supercollider (perhaps not that far, the capabilities are a little vague and seem fairly basic), and everything in between. You will be able to go as deep as you like. Also has non-linear sequencing so you can play stuff live like ableton/bitwig and control it all how you want with hardware controllers. The fact that it boasts plugin hosting means that you could write a whole song in it as intricately as you want and then export to reaper/ardour to edit and mix, although in the pictures there is delay and reverb so I assume it can host vst effects and you could mix entirely within it.

It's like they have taken all the best stuff from all the ways of manipulating midi and combined it all in one. It will be interesting to see the development of it, I can imagine if they add audio capabilities it would be a real competitor in the monolithic daw world. And it will be available natively on linux.

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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby jonetsu » Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:17 pm

sysrqer wrote: Look at the screenshots, it looks to be a whole environment. It seems to have full sequencing capabilities but much more besides.


Yes, it looks like a DAW, but it's not called a DAW. And it's not a VST. So it's like saying goodbye Bitwig (for the projects made inside this new environment). And it will be learning a very developed and very distinct DAW/environment vs. learning softsynths or audio plugins that can be incorporated into the current workflow. This one will create a new workflow on its own then. And it will sell for something around 140£, so it's a major thing.

As it stands for now and the near/middle term my approach is to learn about the tools I already got. This Architect is seemingly asking for a departure in order to learn it for exclusive use, not integrated with the current workflow. What it can do must be amazing. It has to.

I think I will wait for several creations to be made with this and read people (raving ?) about it.

Cheers.

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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby sysrqer » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:15 pm

That's fine, it may not fill a need that you have but for many people it will be exciting. I haven't used bitwig for quite a while but I really doubt it has the kind of midi capabilities that this will bring. You could say that I can load up carla and build whatever I want because there are a lot of great midi plugins around but I think this looks much more powerful and convenient. I think comparing it to a full daw, at least at the moment, is not fair, it obviously will lack what you can do in some areas in a lot of the current daws but I doesn't look like that is the focus. This looks like it will be a fantastic tool for live use, and/or controlling all your hardware where audio use isn't much of a factor. Non linear sequencing is something that is very much lacking for linux in my opinion, true we have bitwig (which is far too expensive for me to afford) and we have giada (not bad but fairly limited) but aside from those there is nothing that is really centered around playing live or even just around sequencing midi.

Learning is just what we do as musicians. I would be amazed if you opened bitwig and knew what to do. I used ableton (and reason/cubase before that) for about 10 years and when I tried bitwig I didn't find it instinctive or even easy to use.

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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby jonetsu » Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:41 pm

sysrqer wrote:Learning is just what we do as musicians. I would be amazed if you opened bitwig and knew what to do.


I quite often do. For instance I may start Bitwig specifically to learn more about a synth. Or to test some approaches to using side-chains. What happens though is that despite a good start I sometimes veer off by the learning/exploration and start constructing a 'jam' based on what I found/tested.

That said Architect can also run as a VST. One has compared Architect to a much better version of Keykit (1996) that was/is available also for Linux:

keykit.jpg


More on Keykit (link in the left column under Software) :

http://nosuch.com/tjt/index.html

Still, as interesting it might be, I do not see the practical uses. Hopefully there'll be a demo to try.

Cheers.
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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby davephillips » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:11 am

jonetsu wrote:...One has compared Architect to a much better version of Keykit (1996) that was/is available also for Linux...


Ah yes, Keykit. I used it a lot quite some time ago. Lots of fun.

https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8153

Architect looks to me like it's a rich environment for MIDI composition/manipulation. Maybe it has more features than BWS, I don't know yet, but I'll certainly be interested in giving it a whirl here.

Best,

dp

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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby jonetsu » Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:14 pm

davephillips wrote: Architect looks to me like it's a rich environment for MIDI composition/manipulation. Maybe it has more features than BWS, I don't know yet, but I'll certainly be interested in giving it a whirl here.


If it is like Usine then it will be able to control the (DMX) lights on stage as well as having video processing. Still, I have watched a couple of videos on Usine, which was brought up as a comparison on KVR, and my first thought is, I already am using a DAW. And not only one but two, one for creation and one for mixing. And still have to learn them fully. Do I really want to get into another DAW and if so, what would be the great advantages in doing so ? OTOH, Architect can also run as a VST plugin and this is where it gets a bit strange as to what it can eventually accomplish within a DAW. A sequencer plugin ?

It seems that it caters to a crowd that already fully knows what this is about. Like describing the technical features of a biscuit joiner to a crowd of woodworkers: there would not be any explanation about what is the purpose of this power tool, since everyone knows about it and what biscuits are, so all the talk would be about specific features.

Cheers.

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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby sysrqer » Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:30 pm

jonetsu wrote:Architect can also run as a VST plugin and this is where it gets a bit strange as to what it can eventually accomplish within a DAW. A sequencer plugin ?

It's not just a sequencer plugin, it is what you want it to be. Ever used a scale plugin, or a chord plugin, or an arpeggio plugin? Perhaps you have used them all at once? Look at drum machines, it's not that weird to want a good midi sequencer inside a daw host - many plugins provide sequencing capabilities such as microtonic, and I expect you will be able to use the sequencer for automation purposes which creates some interesting possibilities for live or semi live composition situations. Look at sequencers like the octotrack and you realise there is a lot that daws don't do by default.

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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby AlbertoZ » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:53 pm

Ah yes, Keykit. I used it a lot quite some time ago. Lots of fun.

I hope architect will let me do things I used to do in keykit: I mean, midi phrases manìpulation, algorithmic generation of sequences and so on.
I had so much fun as well with keykit (I contributed two tools, one named keykaos: https://sites.google.com/site/albertozin/Home/keykit)
and that in combination with ZynAddSubFx was killer. But the scope of architect is much larger apparently...

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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby sysrqer » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:21 pm

AlbertoZ wrote:
Ah yes, Keykit. I used it a lot quite some time ago. Lots of fun.

I hope architect will let me do things I used to do in keykit: I mean, midi phrases manìpulation, algorithmic generation of sequences and so on.

Have you played with renoise much? You can do a lot of that stuff with phrases and effect commands.

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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby jonetsu » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:47 pm

sysrqer wrote: It's not just a sequencer plugin, it is what you want it to be. Ever used a scale plugin, or a chord plugin, or an arpeggio plugin?


Hmmm. Yesterday I thought, well, I already have a good number of plugins with some of them able to do 'crazy' things, so why would I need Architect ? Now I can add: well, I already have a quite capable sequencer, B-Step2. As for automation and modulation, Bitwig offers a choice of tools natively. In other words, still looking what's so interesting about Architect. I'm curious about trying out the demo.

b-step2.jpg
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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby jonetsu » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:49 pm

(Redundant, delete if possible. I tried deleting this post but it still shows up)

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AlbertoZ
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Re: Loomer's Architect announced

Postby AlbertoZ » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:45 pm

sysrqer wrote:
AlbertoZ wrote:
Ah yes, Keykit. I used it a lot quite some time ago. Lots of fun.

I hope architect will let me do things I used to do in keykit: I mean, midi phrases manìpulation, algorithmic generation of sequences and so on.

Have you played with renoise much? You can do a lot of that stuff with phrases and effect commands.


I didn't know renoise allows that.. Unfortunately the "tracker-style" way of working is not for me. All the times I tried it didn't work .. :roll:
I feel much more comfortable with graphical patching (pure-data-, VCV- style) and with coding stuff (Supercollider, keykit), but trackers are out of my way of thinking. Architect apparently has both of the first two worlds in it.
It's clear what you can do in Architect you can do it as well in PD or Supercolider, but the way it is presented is very well strctured, self-standing environment (with the duality of being VST and VST Host).
Another important thing, at least for me: it could fill the gap of powerful midi processing within Ardour, which is quite weak on that side right now.

Let's see when the beta will come out.


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