Stereo widening

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Capoeira
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Re: Stereo widening

Post by Capoeira »

turbidh20 wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:39 am
I've just tried airwindows Wider, seems promising, thanks for that.

I'm currently using Venomode Pivot (Linux VST) and that's sounding pretty good. I'm not sure that's strictly a widener but it's giving me the desired effect.
Capoeira wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:55 pm
right now I am comparing Fons Adriaensen's (Zita?) Stereo Width plugin to Ozone. sounds prety good before comparision
What's the name of the Stereo Width plugin please? I'm having trouble finding it.
It's just called Stereo Width; hadn't found (the source) it when I posted either. Now I am prety sure it's inside this http://kokkinizita.linuxaudio.org/linux ... .2.tar.bz2
If not tell me, some how I find it lol

I didn't like the airwindows one.

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turbidh20
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Re: Stereo widening

Post by turbidh20 »

Capoeira wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:43 am
It's just called Stereo Width; hadn't found (the source) it when I posted either. Now I am prety sure it's inside this http://kokkinizita.linuxaudio.org/linux ... .2.tar.bz2
If not tell me, some how I find it lol
That's the one, thanks :D Sounds pretty good too. I think I may have this covered now with this and Pivot. Cheers.

Edit: @Capoeira Just out of interest, as you ears no doubt work better than mine, would you mind posting the settings you use for "Stereo Width"? I realise it will alter on the type of music but a general setting is a good place to start.

Due to slight frequency loss I'm guessing a little when mastering, although I think my mix levels are pretty good. It might be useful if we post our presets for plugins or what settings we use, to help others. When I've finally finished my current mix I should have some usable settings I can post.
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bluebell
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Re: Stereo widening

Post by bluebell »

Maybe you're interested in this, too:

http://marzen.de/Holger/stereo_width/
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Capoeira
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Re: Stereo widening

Post by Capoeira »

turbidh20 wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:30 pm


Edit: @Capoeira Just out of interest, as you ears no doubt work better than mine, would you mind posting the settings you use for "Stereo Width"? I
I had to learn this yet, too. I had a few listens on centered mono sources and wide stereo sources.
"Stereo Width" does nothing to mono (yea, the name sugests it) and messes up the balance, like same what happens to the example one post above and what happens to many other tecniques spreaded in the internet.
you are probably supposed to balance this effect out with the balance knob, but it get's very weird imo. btw: Calf Stereo Tools can do the same things (with the same balance problems)
I ditched "Stereo Width".

went back to Airwindows wider, and the width knob actualy widens stereo (without effecting balance), just not very much, but if it is obvious it is most of the time too much. the center slider (for mono?) does nothing.
before you ask: I think the slider can be used to the max, then reduce master track to mono to check if you get any cancelation. it probably is limited in width just to not cause cancelation. test the width by soling your hard panned tracks.

So I put my new Ozone Elements into the test:
"width" sounds like "width" in the Airwindows one, but with much wider possibilities (too wide?)
"Stereoize I" sucks, and "Stereoize II" adds width to mono-centered source masterfully (in conjunction with width).
everything sounds very naturaly

I don't think this kind of tool is something for freeware to get right. Izotope worked many, many years on their tools.
I can recomend Ozone Elements for the wider only, let alone the other tools.
there are probably other payed solution as good as (or perhaps not), but I wont dig deeper into this as I allready have my solution.

one thing: those balance (phase?) problems I talked about might sound good on some genres like experimental or electro(?). but personaly I think they suck

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turbidh20
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Re: Stereo widening

Post by turbidh20 »

bluebell wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:28 pm
Maybe you're interested in this, too:

http://marzen.de/Holger/stereo_width/
Interesting, thanks.

I'm spending more time on chasing this "enhancement" to the master than actually working on the music! I do enjoy all the fiddling about though :D
Capoeira wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:11 pm
So I put my new Ozone Elements into the test:
"width" sounds like "width" in the Airwindows one, but with much wider possibilities (too wide?)
"Stereoize I" sucks, and "Stereoize II" adds width to mono-centered source masterfully (in conjunction with width).
everything sounds very naturaly

I don't think this kind of tool is something for freeware to get right. Izotope worked many, many years on their tools.
I can recomend Ozone Elements for the wider only, let alone the other tools.
there are probably other payed solution as good as (or perhaps not), but I wont dig deeper into this as I allready have my solution.
Once again, many thanks for the interesting feedback.

I actually used Ozone way back (version 2 or 3?) and it worked like "magic" for me at the time but I used Windows then. I've only just got back into using a DAW after a long time out and I'm trying not to go down the route of Wine for plugins even though $29 is a good sale price. I might succumb eventually though, it just depends if I'm happy enough with the Linux solutions.
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Capoeira
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Re: Stereo widening

Post by Capoeira »

turbidh20 wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:45 am
bluebell wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:28 pm
Maybe you're interested in this, too:

http://marzen.de/Holger/stereo_width/
Interesting, thanks.

I'm spending more time on chasing this "enhancement" to the master than actually working on the music! I do enjoy all the fiddling about though :D
Capoeira wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:11 pm
So I put my new Ozone Elements into the test:
"width" sounds like "width" in the Airwindows one, but with much wider possibilities (too wide?)
"Stereoize I" sucks, and "Stereoize II" adds width to mono-centered source masterfully (in conjunction with width).
everything sounds very naturaly

I don't think this kind of tool is something for freeware to get right. Izotope worked many, many years on their tools.
I can recomend Ozone Elements for the wider only, let alone the other tools.
there are probably other payed solution as good as (or perhaps not), but I wont dig deeper into this as I allready have my solution.
Once again, many thanks for the interesting feedback.

I actually used Ozone way back (version 2 or 3?) and it worked like "magic" for me at the time but I used Windows then. I've only just got back into using a DAW after a long time out and I'm trying not to go down the route of Wine for plugins even though $29 is a good sale price. I might succumb eventually though, it just depends if I'm happy enough with the Linux solutions.
try 2 airwindows wider one after the other.
for mono-widing try dubbling the track, spreading both out left and right and aplying different effects to them (eg EQ).

one can probably make stereo widning combining delay, phase, balance (calf stereo tools) sound good; at the end those must be the tools Ozone is using too. I suspect getting the balance right is very hard, and would need to be redone for every other source and song; and then suddenly it got too wide, and you have to rebalnce everything again. Ozone probably developed an algorythm which does that automaticly

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turbidh20
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Re: Stereo widening

Post by turbidh20 »

Capoeira wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:31 am
I suspect getting the balance right is very hard, and would need to be redone for every other source and song; and then suddenly it got too wide, and you have to rebalnce everything again. Ozone probably developed an algorythm which does that automaticly
That's the beauty of a plugin like that for me, it's simple and automatic. I'm not sure I have the time, patience and ears for implementing a multi plugin solution on every track. Ok, back to the DAW I go... :)
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Capoeira
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Re: Stereo widening

Post by Capoeira »

Airwindows DEV gives some tips about his plugin in post 5 here https://www.gearslutz.com/board/product ... u-vst.html

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turbidh20
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Re: Stereo widening

Post by turbidh20 »

Capoeira wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:56 am
Airwindows DEV gives some tips about his plugin in post 5 here https://www.gearslutz.com/board/product ... u-vst.html
That was useful, thanks.

I ended up using Pivot (EQ), Wider and Stereo Width :lol: on my current track.
Last edited by turbidh20 on Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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funkmuscle
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Re: Stereo widening

Post by funkmuscle »

turbidh20 wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:00 pm
Capoeira wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:56 am
Airwindows DEV gives some tips about his plugin in post 5 here https://www.gearslutz.com/board/product ... u-vst.html
That was useful, thanks.

I ended up using Pivot (EQ), Widen and Stereo Width :lol: on my current track.
I was using airwindows Wider for sometime on guitars, strings, etc., but Calf's stereo widener I thought sounded better on the master buss. Still trying to figure out which plugin is Fons.

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Capoeira
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Re: Stereo widening

Post by Capoeira »

turbidh20 wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:00 pm
Pivot (EQ),
LSP has mid/side processors btw

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Capoeira
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Re: Stereo widening

Post by Capoeira »

I don't think widening should be overused. I used it on this training mix, because those ambience synth/piano tracks came in stereo and restricted my panning space for all the rest, so in the end I widend on the master and kind of took that ambience out of the speakers to let the rest breath more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sk_CKrbsbA
[Mixbus, Harrison plugs, LSP plugs, Ozone and the superb little (free) MVerb]

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turbidh20
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Re: Stereo widening

Post by turbidh20 »

Capoeira wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:51 am
turbidh20 wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:00 pm
Pivot (EQ),
LSP has mid/side processors btw
I can't get my head around some of those LSP plugins! They seem quite complicated to me. I suppose once you learn how they work then it's no longer an issue.
Capoeira wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:56 pm
I don't think widening should be overused. I used it on this training mix, because those ambience synth/piano tracks came in stereo and restricted my panning space for all the rest, so in the end I widend on the master and kind of took that ambience out of the speakers to let the rest breath more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sk_CKrbsbA
[Mixbus, Harrison plugs, LSP plugs, Ozone and the superb little (free) MVerb]
Sounds great :) The singer has a lovely voice. Did you use MVerb on the vocal?
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Capoeira
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Re: Stereo widening

Post by Capoeira »

turbidh20 wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:02 am
Capoeira wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:51 am
turbidh20 wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:00 pm
Pivot (EQ),
LSP has mid/side processors btw
I can't get my head around some of those LSP plugins! They seem quite complicated to me. I suppose once you learn how they work then it's no longer an issue.
they have a lot of very specialized stuff. the good thing is that they have almost everything you could ask for. there are also online manuals and also some youtube videos. I manly use their more basic stuff; the multi band compressor is great for example, with the inbuild spectrum analyzer and soling feature
turbidh20 wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:02 am

Capoeira wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:56 pm
I don't think widening should be overused. I used it on this training mix, because those ambience synth/piano tracks came in stereo and restricted my panning space for all the rest, so in the end I widend on the master and kind of took that ambience out of the speakers to let the rest breath more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sk_CKrbsbA
[Mixbus, Harrison plugs, LSP plugs, Ozone and the superb little (free) MVerb]
Sounds great :) The singer has a lovely voice. Did you use MVerb on the vocal?
MVerb is on vocals, piano, claps, pandeiros and even that crazy electronic bridge. that ambience synth, which has no reverb aplied at all, asked for it. there is Harrison GVerb on other stuff like the snare and guitar

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turbidh20
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Re: Stereo widening

Post by turbidh20 »

Capoeira wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:27 am
MVerb is on vocals, piano, claps, pandeiros and even that crazy electronic bridge. that ambience synth, which has no reverb aplied at all, asked for it. there is Harrison GVerb on other stuff like the snare and guitar
I found a 64bit version - "Mverb 2020" at SocaLabs. Seems quite nice. I'm still preferring "guitarix echo" for my own vocals. I'm not finding myself using much reverb at all. I do like a tiny touch of airwaves "MV" on my drum bus though.
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