Stereo widening

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singforme
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Stereo widening

Postby singforme » Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:19 pm

Hi, what do you guys use for Stereo widening in Linux? In Windows I used to work with http://quikquak.com/Prod_UpStereo.html - is there anything comparable in Linux?

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funkmuscle
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Re: Stereo widening

Postby funkmuscle » Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:17 pm

http://www.airwindows.com/wider-vst/
there is a native linux plugin in the zip file. Actually for all 3 platforms.

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Markus
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Re: Stereo widening

Postby Markus » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:27 am

Calf has some tools:

  • Stereo Tools: change the volume of only mid or side signal, change the stereo base from mono to phase-inverted stereo, delay the channels, change the phase of channels
  • Multiband Enhancer: use four different bands for dedicated stereo base enhancement and add harmonic distortions to any of the bands
  • Multi Spread: Pure mono signals can be spatialized by distributing the signal in the frequency domain to both speakers. Good starting point to enhance the stereo base afterwards with other tools.
  • Haas Enhancer: Add some short delays on left and right channel to spread the signal in the time domain

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sysrqer
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Re: Stereo widening

Postby sysrqer » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:27 am

42low wrote:Panning and Limiter/Compressor. :mrgreen:
After good editing and mastering. This way i like to keep control.

That's great but it's not stereo widening.

jonetsu
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Re: Stereo widening

Postby jonetsu » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:03 pm

There's the free Voxengo plugin MSED - if you are runnning Windows plugins - that encodes stereo as a middle and sides signal, which is another way of encoding stereo. Boosting slightly the sides signal will add width. MSED is actually recommened by Mike Senior (Sound On Sound's Mix Rescue and Cambridge MT) is his book "Mixing Secrets" first edition. Voxengo specializes in EQs, frequency analyzers (SPAN) and compressors.

https://www.voxengo.com/product/msed/

I run it fine using wine-staging/linvst.

Cheers.

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sysrqer
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Re: Stereo widening

Postby sysrqer » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:01 pm

42low wrote:Together and if done well then for sure it is. :mrgreen:

Those plugins do exactly the same, but automatically and many times by regular pre-sets.
A song needs to be made in total. You can't build some rubbish were some overall plugin will do the magic. That's not how it works.
After all you have to create a well balanced song and have to edit and master it good in total to eventually get good results.


No, what you described is stereo panning. Sure you can make a song wider by using pan but that isn't what stereo widening does (in the context of this thread at least).

Stereo widening can make sounds wider than panning allows ("outside of the speakers"), or can make a mono signal in to a stereo signal, often using psychoacoustic methods such as phase, delay, mid/side processing. Markus gave an excellent example of some of the possible methods in the post above, review those and you will see it is not the same thing as panning.

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Re: Stereo widening

Postby jonetsu » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:34 pm

MIke Senior in his aforementioned book describes several approaches to widening, not all equal. One I haven't tried yet consists of duplicating a track, then apply some EQ to one track and the inverse of that EQ to the duplicated track.

Another one is using a very quick autopan between 5 to 8 KHz at the appropriate depth.

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Markus
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Re: Stereo widening

Postby Markus » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:47 pm

One I haven't tried yet consists of duplicating a track, then apply some EQ to one track and the inverse of that EQ to the duplicated track.


That's what Calf Multi Spread is doing but with easier control. MSED you described is part of Calf Stereo Tools.

jonetsu
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Re: Stereo widening

Postby jonetsu » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:06 pm

Markus wrote:
One I haven't tried yet consists of duplicating a track, then apply some EQ to one track and the inverse of that EQ to the duplicated track.


That's what Calf Multi Spread is doing but with easier control. MSED you described is part of Calf Stereo Tools.


Just to be sure a cat is called a cat .... MSED is the name of a Voxengo free plugin product and has nothing to do with Calf plugins nor with specifically the Calf Stereo Tools plugin. The latter uses a same principle but is not the MSED plugin created by Voxengo.

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nikgnomicradio
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Re: Stereo widening

Postby nikgnomicradio » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:17 pm

singforme wrote:what do you guys use for Stereo widening in Linux?


Same as anywhere else - mid-side recording
easy to adjust stereo image in post-production

If i had the money - ambisonic microphone

but using pan pots for mixdown is usually enough

jonetsu
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Re: Stereo widening

Postby jonetsu » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:10 am

Mixbus (the commercial version of Ardour) features a width adjustment for each mixbuss in addition to the panning., making it clear that panning and stereo width are different things as sysrqer mentioned.

mixbusWidthKnobs.jpg
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rghvdberg
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Re: Stereo widening

Postby rghvdberg » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:21 am

With synth tracks I sometimes duplicate the track.
Pan one hard left, the other hard right.
Take a parameter to automate (filter for example) and slightly randomly automate that parameter. Differently on both tracks ofc.

I guess this is kinda similar to the eq approach.

rghvdberg
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Re: Stereo widening

Postby rghvdberg » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:24 am

Oh and another trick often used on guitar is to have the dry signal hard panned left and the reverb hard panned right.
When you solo the track it sounds odd but in a mix it sounds great.

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sysrqer
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Re: Stereo widening

Postby sysrqer » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:48 am

42low wrote:
jonetsu wrote:Mixbus (the commercial version of Ardour) features a width adjustment for each mixbuss in addition to the panning., making it clear that panning and stereo width are different things as sysrqer mentioned.

Read before you keep discussing.
I never said panning=widening. I said: the total work-flow off editing and mastering is! (including panning)

And i never said auto widening would be bad or whatever. So you don't have to "defend" anything.
Manual simply always gives more control then automated. Why it has my preference.


It's not about being automated, in fact nothing is automated. It's not really any different than applying EQ, with that you are manually altering the frequency spectrum of a sound, with stereo widening you are altering the stereo/spatial spectrum.

Doing a mix with editing, panning, regular EQ etc, is not the same thing as stereo widening either.

As a simple example, panning can make a two sounds fully left and right, let's say 100L and 100R. Without stereo widening techniques the sounds will only ever be a maximum of 100L 100R. With stereo widening the sounds can appear to be 150L 150R.

I'm not sure of the point you are trying to make, 'auto' and 'automated' doesn't make any sense in this context.

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sysrqer
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Re: Stereo widening

Postby sysrqer » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:52 am

42low wrote:
Automatic panners or stereo tremolos work similarly to the pan knob. The only difference is that the motion is automated, creating a sense of movement for a certain instrument. The movement is done by modulating the pan with an LFO (low frequency oscillator). A classic, but effective trick.


That isn't what we're talking about. I think you are confused about what the topic is.

42low wrote:
One can achieve a wide stereo image in a variety of ways like changing the phase, modifying the processing, using multiple delays, etc…

That's exactly what was explained previously. Using delay/changing phase/processing mid and side doesn't have much to do with panning.


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