Guitar tone sounds harsh and boxy

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Nachei
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Guitar tone sounds harsh and boxy

Post by Nachei »

Hello, would someone check this guitar excerpt and try to tell me what is wrong with my guitar sound?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5sbfkmoko0kim ... t.ogg?dl=0


Lately it's been sounding harsh and grainy, and I just can't find the cause. I've A/B tested my whole sound chain to and fro, and read article after article, and I'm running out of ideas.

I use a Peavey Predator (Fender knock out) connected to a Samson G-Track, connected via USB to Jack via Guitarix.

Different Jack parameters have not helped. Different cables (audio, USB) have not helped. Using Rakarrack instead of Guitarix same issues. Different distros (Ubuntu Studio, AV Linux), no difference. Killing Pulse Audio no difference. The guitar strings are new. Different computer, same issues. Different audio interface (Lexicon Alpha instead of the Samson Gtrack), same issues.

When I record in mono, the track sounds a bit muddier, but in both cases the resulting tracks sound grainy and full of weird harmonics. No led or indicator along the chain shows that the signal gets clipped at any point.

Please reply only if listening to the fragment gives you an actual idea of what could be causing the problem; don't just take a stab because Facebook had a slow day or whatever :)
tramp
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Re: Guitar tone sounds harsh and boxy

Post by tramp »

Can't listen to it, as dropbox requires a login. :|
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lilith
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Re: Guitar tone sounds harsh and boxy

Post by lilith »

Sounds perfectly ok for me.
I could download without logging in.
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funkmuscle
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Re: Guitar tone sounds harsh and boxy

Post by funkmuscle »

I use this to fix any harsh or boxy or nasty guitar tracks..http://www.airwindows.com/energy-vst/
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Re: Guitar tone sounds harsh and boxy

Post by tramp »

okay, so now I could download it as well.

Suggestion:
load a IR file in guitarix, I'm using sandman_ir.wav from the Metalic Gold Impulse Response Collection:
http://richardcookson.co.uk/Tattva/
for example, and the harshness is gone.
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sadko4u
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Re: Guitar tone sounds harsh and boxy

Post by sadko4u »

First of all, what settings do you use in your chain?
For me it's too much bass and too insufficient high frequencies in guitar sound. It also seems that you're using not good cabinet simulator.
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Nachei
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Re: Guitar tone sounds harsh and boxy

Post by Nachei »

Thank you for the suggestions. Wow, I didn't know neither Airwindows Energy (which just worked ootb into Carla, and what a great tool it is), nor how to use a convolver; both have already been great improvements to my tone. Tramp (or anybody), would you have a suggestion of another impulse response package but for punk rock? With that I would have all the bases covered...

@sadko4u, I attach a screenshot of my Guitarix settings (I assume that's what you're asking for, as I already posted above my chain, which is dead simple: guitar>card>computer). The card only has 3 knobs, Vol, Inst and Mic, nothing to manipulate lows and highs...
settings_guitarix.jpg
settings_guitarix.jpg (202.62 KiB) Viewed 1419 times
I took the preset kokoko3k, dist1 or 2 I don't remember, and only changed some minor parameters, if I remember well.
In the picture, Zita Rev and Digital Stereo Delay are off because I switched them off while trying the convolver (I found the reverb-over-reverb made the sound thin and muddy).

Also, you mention that I may be using the wrong cabinet; when I was learning how to use the convolver, I looked for it because there was a warning not to use the convolver at the same time as a cabinet simulator... and found that there wasn't any cabinet to take away already. Maybe I took it away in some of the previous tests, I don't remember. Is it essential to have one? And if so, how come it can be removed? I just don't know a lot about these things...

Another phenomenon I see is that the guitar seems to sound way richer while I'm playing or recording than later in the resulting recorded track. Is this some known effect, maybe psychoacoustic playing tricks on you? I just don't know at this point, and fresh ears are very much appreciated. Thank you all for your help...
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funkmuscle
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Re: Guitar tone sounds harsh and boxy

Post by funkmuscle »

I find these work great for everything.
http://www.redwirez.com/bigbox.jsp
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Re: Guitar tone sounds harsh and boxy

Post by tramp »

Nachei wrote:I attach a screenshot of my Guitarix settings
Wow, haven't seen this old interface for some time :) Which distribution do you use?
Nachei wrote:Maybe I took it away in some of the previous tests, I don't remember. Is it essential to have one? And if so, how come it can be removed? I just don't know a lot about these things...
guitarix is a modular amp simulation, a lot of people struggle about that.
In the analogue world you ain't need to think about that, there, if you would replace a tube, a cabinet or a just a resistor in you or tonestack, you've to open it, take a soldering iron, and, of course, you need to know exactly what you do.
In the digital world, all this could be done with a single click on a mouse button.
Hence the options available may overwhelm some people and makes it complicated to find the "right" settings for your sound.
I admit it could be a annoying learning step.
But that is the answer why the cabinet could be removed so easily. You could replace it with so many options, . . .

In the analogue world, most amps use cabinet simulation circuits for direct output, otherwise you'll get a harsh sound. Here is a plot of a circuit used in some Marshall (JTM) amps:
Image

As you could see, it will start to reduce Frequency's above 3kHz, down to -35db for 10kHz, on the low end it reduce from 90Hz down to -35db at 20Hz. Also it does a shelf from 130Hz to 1kHz. This is what makes your sound richer, remove the harshness from the direct output of that amp and open space for other instruments in the mix.
You could as well archive that with EQ, for example.
Other amps use other cabinet simulation circuits to cover there very own sound on direct out.
Here, for example the Cabinet simulator from the Hughes&Kettner Triamp:
Image
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Re: Guitar tone sounds harsh and boxy

Post by carlv »

funkmuscle wrote:I use this to fix any harsh or boxy or nasty guitar tracks..http://www.airwindows.com/energy-vst/
So glad i clicked this post. And brand spankin' new to boot, too... Yow ! :mrgreen:
Thanks!
Nachei
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Re: Guitar tone sounds harsh and boxy

Post by Nachei »

@ Funkmuscle,

thank you for your recommendation, I'll have to check it out when my gear budget recovers from some recent acquisitions I had to make. I have to tell, however, that I don't understand the sales process of these guys; their site has a lot of letter but no sound at all. If you want to listen to a demo, you have to create an account, but you can't know if you're interested in creating an account until you've checked how good their stuff sounds! Beats me.

Could you maybe link to some piece of music you've made with it that is a good "showcase"? If not nevermind, I'll check you out in the archives...


@Tramp,

Yeah, the audio distro I use is Ubuntu Studio 16, installed about a year ago (they are currently in version 18, I think). Their Guitarix should be more modern, right? Whenever I see it in some tutorial, I like the new interface with green tones a lot better. There are a few things like that about Ubuntu Studio that I don't really like and I want to move to a different distro at some point, perhaps when I finish the collection of songs I'm in the middle of right now.

Thank you for your detailed explanation on amp sims. I guess part of my confusion, and this shows what a rookie I am, came from the fact that the whole amp looks like a "cabinet" to me, i.e. a big box with holes and thingies in it...

It's the sign of our times that the musician now has to take charge of his whole chain, and that gives you many possibilities, but a lot to learn too. My strong point is scales, modes, tempos... I can tinker and play around with that stuff all day; but the screwdriver stuff, and the Hz and Dbs stuff... my battery runs out much quicker; I want to learn and I'm learning, but hey, I spent my pre-internet years happy with a Metal Zone pedal and an amp of which I knew that it had an on/off button; and whenever I had to manipulate the knobs, my sound categories fell into two buckets: cool vs sucks :P

Anyways, thank you all for your suggestions, they have opened a lot of avenues of exploration for my sound. I think Energy should be more popular, its a very cool tool.

Someone said that my sound had a lot of bass, and I found that checking the "presence" indicator improves the sound a lot. If I remember correctly, Presence boosts the highs, so maybe that could be the cause...

Thank you again, this problem had been bugging me for a long time :)
Frank Carvalho
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Re: Guitar tone sounds harsh and boxy

Post by Frank Carvalho »

carlv wrote:
funkmuscle wrote:I use this to fix any harsh or boxy or nasty guitar tracks..http://www.airwindows.com/energy-vst/
So glad i clicked this post. And brand spankin' new to boot, too... Yow ! :mrgreen:
Thanks!
A very interesting plugin. But the fact that it only work at 44.1Hz makes it of limited use for me. I only work in 48kHz or multiples thereof.

/Frank
Vox, Selmer, Yamaha and Leslie amplifiers. Rickenbacker, Epiphone, Ibanez, Washburn, Segovia, Yamaha and Fender guitars. Hammond, Moog, Roland, Korg, Yamaha, Crumar, Ensoniq and Mellotron keyboards. Xubuntu+KXStudio recording setup.
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