Dragonfly Hall Reverb

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Frank Carvalho
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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby Frank Carvalho » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:46 pm

ssj71 wrote:
Michael Willis wrote:Yeah, I'm not sure that there is a way to do realtime reverse on an algorithmic reverb like Dragonfly


well its certainly possible by inducing latency equal to the length of the tail, then effectively running the algorithm backwards. There might be a more clever way, but inevitably if you want to hear the verb before the dry, you'll have to have latency (it's non-causal).


I suppose, if one was willing to accept an initial calculation pause after changing the setting to reverse, an impulse response of the actual algorithm settings could be calculated and then used reversed. Of course the reverb fade-in will also come after the source signal, not before. A long time after, with a long reverb tail.
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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby ssj71 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:50 pm

Frank Carvalho wrote:I suppose, if one was willing to accept an initial calculation pause after changing the setting to reverse, an impulse response of the actual algorithm settings could be calculated and then used reversed. Of course the reverb fade-in will also come after the source signal, not before. A long time after, with a long reverb tail.


that could be tested just by reversing a hall IR with a wav editor (e.g. audacity) and running it in a convolver (ir, klangfalter). Is that the effect people are looking for? I don't think it would sound like what people expect. If it is I'd also expect that could be achieved algorithmically, (but thats without actually studying it at all).
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tramp
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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby tramp » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:55 pm

ssj71 wrote:that could be tested just by reversing a hall IR with a wav editor (e.g. audacity) and running it in a convolver (ir, klangfalter). Is that the effect people are looking for?


That isn't how convolution works. Convolution is a linear effect, so, there isn't a start and a end, which you'll need to reverse it. Convolution means that the incoming signal get's processed by the filter kernel, means, every single float comes in get's multiplicand with every single float in the filter kernel. You could imagine that the order in the filter dosen't matter here.
What you'll properly want is, reverse the incoming signal and feed it to the reverb, what ever one, be it convolution or algorithm. Of course, that will introduce a delay. Now, to archive a pre-reverse reverb ( like playing backwards), you'll need a buffer delay added. To archive a reverse delay "after the incoming signal, you ain't need add a buffer.
Check out guitarix reverse delay for that. Replace the delay with a reverb will be easy.

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funkmuscle
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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby funkmuscle » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:43 pm

tramp wrote:Check out guitarix reverse delay for that. Replace the delay with a reverb will be easy.

There's a gx reverse delay? I just looked through my Gx and guitarix plugins and can't find.

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tramp
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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby tramp » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:18 am

funkmuscle wrote:There's a gx reverse delay?

You'll find it in guitarix under the Echo/Delay tab.

ssj71
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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby ssj71 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:59 pm

tramp wrote:
ssj71 wrote:that could be tested just by reversing a hall IR with a wav editor (e.g. audacity) and running it in a convolver (ir, klangfalter). Is that the effect people are looking for?


That isn't how convolution works. Convolution is a linear effect, so, there isn't a start and a end, which you'll need to reverse it. Convolution means that the incoming signal get's processed by the filter kernel, means, every single float comes in get's multiplicand with every single float in the filter kernel. You could imagine that the order in the filter dosen't matter here.
What you'll properly want is, reverse the incoming signal and feed it to the reverb, what ever one, be it convolution or algorithm. Of course, that will introduce a delay. Now, to archive a pre-reverse reverb ( like playing backwards), you'll need a buffer delay added. To archive a reverse delay "after the incoming signal, you ain't need add a buffer.
Check out guitarix reverse delay for that. Replace the delay with a reverb will be easy.


I understand, but that was essentially what was being proposed. I've played with the gx reverse delay and TBQH I don't think there's any substitute for flat out reversing the entire post reverb waveform, and there's no way to do that real-time. Not that the gx reverse is bad, I guess that's what most people expect in a reverse delay, but I prefer the old-school recording trick.
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Michael Willis
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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby Michael Willis » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:56 pm

Minor update, mostly just bumped the version number and stopped considering it "pre-release":

https://github.com/michaelwillis/dragon ... /tag/1.0.0

rghvdberg
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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby rghvdberg » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:20 am

Congrats on the 1.0 release!

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Michael Willis
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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby Michael Willis » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:43 pm

A new experimental feature has been released:

Dragonfly Reverb 1.1.0: Decay Time Dial

This introduces a new dial that controls the decay time independent of the room size.

glowrak guy
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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby glowrak guy » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:46 am

A very sensible and real-world way to operate reverb!
I imagine shrinking the room could have side-effects
on other parameters, if not also on effects earlier in a chain,
possibly unwanted.
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JamesPeters
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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby JamesPeters » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:51 am

The new feature makes this reverb very flexible, and the quality is great!

glowrak guy wrote:I imagine shrinking the room could have side-effects
on other parameters, if not also on effects earlier in a chain,
possibly unwanted.


It's easy enough to revert to the default parameters for the preset "room" (including the intended decay time), since they're saved as a preset for that "room" type in a menu in the GUI. So I don't see it as anything that could ruin the workflow of the plugin.
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Michael Willis
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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby Michael Willis » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:05 am

JamesPeters wrote:It's easy enough to revert to the default parameters for the preset "room" (including the intended decay time), since they're saved as a preset for that "room" type in a menu in the GUI. So I don't see it as anything that could ruin the workflow of the plugin.

You're in this forum too!? I never met you until I started posting on the Reaper forum...

The presets are fairly conservative in their settings. That was an intentional decision, along with dials that allow a fair amount of exaggerating a specific effect if you want.

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JamesPeters
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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby JamesPeters » Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:29 am

I signed up for this forum once I decided to migrate to Linux, which was shortly after I realized there was a native Reaper for Linux. :)

I like the ability to change the decay time in either direction, and I don't hear any negative effects when reducing the decay for a larger room preset. If anything it adds more flexibility.

Oh by the way, are you ready to do another bug fix? :)

While changing room size (with the width parameter set around 100%), the sound seemed to "collapse" to mono. I adjusted the width and the sound was normal again. I repeated the unexpected behavior again. Then I compared the sound with what it would be like when dialing the width control to 50%, and it sounded the same. So it seems when changing the room size, width reverts to 50% but the knob doesn't show this happening. The display window in the middle does reflect what the width setting is, though. If you're familiar with how the width control affects the sound, you can see what's going on in that window.
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lilith
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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby lilith » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:11 pm

Hi and welcome :) That was a good decision.
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JamesPeters
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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby JamesPeters » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:26 am

Thank you, Lilith. :)

The only reverb that I had for Reaper (native Linux VST or JS--I'm not using WINE and Reaper can't use LV2) that I really liked, prior to Dragonfly, was the included impulse loader ReaVerb. I'd found some really nice impulse files, got my favorite reverb sounds to date, and was satisfied that I could use Linux for audio without compromise. Hearing the latest version of Dragonfly, and having it sound better than the impulses I already thought were the best reverb I'd used, that's pretty awesome. :)

The ProG plugin of Freeverb3 was my favorite of the Freeverb3 package, and I'd spent a lot of time comparing it with Hibiki. I wonder now if I missed some settings in Hibiki, or was confused by the interface (while somehow being able to get great sounds with ProG?) Also Is Hibiki capable of the 10s decay length of Dragonfly?

A note to anyone using Dragonfly and wanting the high end to be buttery smooth but also not just "cut off"/dark: try Airwindows "Lowpass". It's no regular lowpass.

PS. someone had posted a link to this video of Eventide UltraReverb on the Reaper forums (in a discussion about plate reverbs). I took the audio from that clip, put it in Reaper, separated the wet examples from the dry examples (put them on separate tracks), and then put Dragonfly on the track with the dry examples. I was able to mimic all of the sounds of that reverb with Dragonfly, except the most extreme ones (the ones with distortion, delay, or "infinite decay" due to lots of feedback)...and I'm reasonably certain I could mimic those too, by using other plugins in series for the delay/distortion/compression.
Last edited by JamesPeters on Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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