Mastering Plugin -- Help me Pick?

All your LV2 and LADSPA goodness and more.

Moderators: MattKingUSA, khz

User avatar
sadko4u
Established Member
Posts: 986
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:03 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 359 times

Re: Mastering Plugin -- Help me Pick?

Post by sadko4u »

Luc wrote:I sure wish Tracktion and Bitwig would support LV2, but can we really blame them for not supporting it?
Will MS Windows support ext2 out of the box? I doubt it. Should we really blame MS for not supporting it out of the box? We - sure. Other users still don't know what's exactly ext2 is.
Luc wrote:Are they being stubborn? Yes, maybe.
Writing cross-platform software is always hard work. While windows developers write software for one platform (you know what's the platform it is), Linux developers are forced to write portable software at least for two platforms if they want to make the software popular. Writing portable software is always complicated process. When people say that Photoshop (that exists for Win and Mac) is good and GIMP (that exists for all platform) is shit, I just want to ask one question: 'Is Photoshop so good that Adobe still couldn't provide portable version for Linux? And what about other software of this company that is often vulnerable like a sieve?'
Luc wrote:But even more so is the Linux camp by insisting on LV2 and living in a bubble, while the rest of the world is making lots of music with their beloved VSTs.
It's an economic rule. The rules dictate that who has huge auditory. Linux is still overtaking Win and Mac in audio development.
Luc wrote:Many people here seem to love Reaper. Is it going to support LV2 when it's ready? I doubt it.
It won't support LV2 until we force Reaper developers to support LV2. The best way I think is to provide anti-advertising for this DAW in Linux Community with slogan "Please buy Reaper for Linux because it is so good that it still can't deal anything with LV2!"
Luc wrote:Then there goes another DAW that cannot use LV2 plugins. That is self inflicted isolation.
This will be true if other DAWs still are not using LV2 plugins. If another DAW will come to Linux and other DAWS mostly will support LV2, then to become competitive to other DAWs developers will be forced to support LV2.
LSP (Linux Studio Plugins) Developer and Maintainer.
Luc
Established Member
Posts: 741
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:04 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Mastering Plugin -- Help me Pick?

Post by Luc »

sadko4u wrote:Will MS Windows support ext2 out of the box? I doubt it. Should we really blame MS for not supporting it out of the box? We - sure. Other users still don't know what's exactly ext2 is.
This part is wrong because you are comparing file systems with regular files. They can't be compared. Nobody shares a file system for other people to use. A file system is a much deeper commitment that, ironically, has little to no consequence. It just holds files, and it's the files that must be cross compatible. And they are.

The rest is wishful thinking. Shall we create an online petition for DAWs to support LV2? :? I have seen people request LV2 support for Tracktion at KVR. Looks like that request is being ignored. There must have been people asking the same for Bitwig. We are losing that battle. Meanwhile, VST plugins have the absolutely largest user base, and LV2 plugins have a much, much smaller user base because they're useless with the best DAWs.
jonetsu
Established Member
Posts: 2036
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:05 am
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: Mastering Plugin -- Help me Pick?

Post by jonetsu »

sadko4u wrote:Will MS Windows support ext2 out of the box? I doubt it. Should we really blame MS for not supporting it out of the box? We - sure. Other users still don't know what's exactly ext2 is.
The analogy is not right because it misses the volume factor. That other users do not know about ext2 is all right since poeple using ext2 are a small group, for a given market and, one that does not necessarily attract sales.
sadko4u wrote:It's an economic rule. The rules dictate that who has huge auditory. Linux is still overtaking Win and Mac in audio development.
Can you give some examples of the overtaking ? If I look at plugins (and I do not use Windows at all) there's a lot of development in commercial VST plugins, all backed up by many dollars. Look at the choice of vintage emulations just for one.
sadko4u wrote:It won't support LV2 until we force Reaper developers to support LV2. The best way I think is to provide anti-advertising for this DAW in Linux Community with slogan "Please buy Reaper for Linux because it is so good that it still can't deal anything with LV2!"
Why oh why would Linux people do that ? It's already said that LV2 has not so much advantages over VST, and that should probably be VST3 by now. Why do this to people who surely against all of their financial dept. nevertheless decided to make a Linux version fo their product ? Why chop the grass under their feet ?
Luc wrote:Then there goes another DAW that cannot use LV2 plugins. That is self inflicted isolation.
sadko4u wrote:This will be true if other DAWs still are not using LV2 plugins. If another DAW will come to Linux and other DAWS mostly will support LV2, then to become competitive to other DAWs developers will be forced to support LV2.
This is true in principle, although Bitwig is a big one and they don't. Morever, if people turns more and more to Linux for audio production, for what Linux has to offer, like stability of filesystem, stability of OS in major user-friendly distros, and other solid reasons, then the VST market will pick up on that also and it could be possible to see more commercial 'Windows' VST ported to LinuxVST instead of LV2 because after all they'll want to keep cost, bugs and support down.
User avatar
sadko4u
Established Member
Posts: 986
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:03 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 359 times

Re: Mastering Plugin -- Help me Pick?

Post by sadko4u »

jonetsu wrote:The analogy is not right because it misses the volume factor. That other users do not know about ext2 is all right since poeple using ext2 are a small group, for a given market and, one that does not necessarily attract sales.
The analogy is right. Why should Linux distributions support FAT, exFAT and NTFS then?
sadko4u wrote:Can you give some examples of the overtaking ? If I look at plugins (and I do not use Windows at all) there's a lot of development in commercial VST plugins, all backed up by many dollars. Look at the choice of vintage emulations just for one.
Maybe I've selected incorrect word. You know, I'm not a native english speaker. I ment 'running behind and trying to catch up'.
sadko4u wrote:Why oh why would Linux people do that ? It's already said that LV2 has not so much advantages over VST, and that should probably be VST3 by now.
Linux people shouldn't do that. That should do users that prefer Reaper under Linux against another DAW that supports LV2.
VST3 is a bad standard because it relies on C++ interfaces. Because C++ interfaces are differently implemented for different compilers because C++ has no standard ABI (But pure C has). So (I guess) developers are forced to use MS Visual Studio to compile VST3 under Windows. And that's the bad practice.
sadko4u wrote:Why do this to people who surely against all of their financial dept. nevertheless decided to make a Linux version fo their product ? Why chop the grass under their feet ?
And why then they should support AAX while porting software to Mac? Let's keep VST everywhere! F*ck AAX!
You see the difference? What could be the opinion of Mac users about the DAW that doesn't support primary standard of plugins for their platform?
Why then DAW developers do implement AAX support and don't implement LV2 support?
Luc wrote:This is true in principle, although Bitwig is a big one and they don't.
I think they aren't afraid of loosing audience under Linux. Because probably Linux audience is 0.0x % of the market.
LSP (Linux Studio Plugins) Developer and Maintainer.
rghvdberg
Established Member
Posts: 1067
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 7:11 am
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: Mastering Plugin -- Help me Pick?

Post by rghvdberg »

Just read a whole page NOT about mastering plugins.
Back on topic please.
Luc
Established Member
Posts: 741
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:04 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Mastering Plugin -- Help me Pick?

Post by Luc »

rghvdberg wrote:Just read a whole page NOT about mastering plugins.
Back on topic please.
The original poster says she prefers Bitwig. Therefore, VST. But VST is not very common on Linux.
Back on topic, I guess I will have to refer her to Windows plugins. :?

Or maybe not. I don't have much experience with Bitwig, but I'd venture the guess that it contains everything one needs for mixing and mastering. Maybe almost everything. So the discussion is over?
rghvdberg
Established Member
Posts: 1067
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 7:11 am
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: Mastering Plugin -- Help me Pick?

Post by rghvdberg »

Don't get me wrong, I find this discussion on vst vs. lv2 very interesting.
Come to think of it. What would be the proper thread/forum to discus that.

Anyway, I think mastering is a dark art, even more mysterious than mixing.
My mastering goal.. make it as loud as the other tracks ..
I just put the Calf Multiband Compressor on the master. Compress every band to 3 db gain reduction.
After that a limiter, set to -3 db

As you can see from the above, I really have no idea what I'm doing :mrgreen:

Rob
ssj71
Established Member
Posts: 1294
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:36 pm
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: Mastering Plugin -- Help me Pick?

Post by ssj71 »

I'd like to see some discussion on what could actually be done to promote LV2 getting added to other DAWs, if it needs to go in another thread, cool. Lets take it somewhere else.

rghvdberg wrote:I just put the Calf Multiband Compressor on the master. Compress every band to 3 db gain reduction.
if you are treating every band exactly the same then there's not much point to using the multiband is there? maybe I misunderstood?
_ssj71

music: https://soundcloud.com/ssj71
My plugins are Infamous! http://ssj71.github.io/infamousPlugins
I just want to get back to making music!
User avatar
sadko4u
Established Member
Posts: 986
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:03 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 359 times

Re: Mastering Plugin -- Help me Pick?

Post by sadko4u »

ssj71 wrote:if you are treating every band exactly the same then there's not much point to using the multiband is there? maybe I misunderstood?
No, it's great difference. But it's too dumb to do -3 dB compression on each frequency band.
LSP (Linux Studio Plugins) Developer and Maintainer.
rghvdberg
Established Member
Posts: 1067
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 7:11 am
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: Mastering Plugin -- Help me Pick?

Post by rghvdberg »

sadko4u wrote:
ssj71 wrote:if you are treating every band exactly the same then there's not much point to using the multiband is there? maybe I misunderstood?
No, it's great difference. But it's too dumb to do -3 dB compression on each frequency band.
Thanks! :D

So, what should I do?
User avatar
sadko4u
Established Member
Posts: 986
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:03 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 359 times

Re: Mastering Plugin -- Help me Pick?

Post by sadko4u »

rghvdberg wrote:So, what should I do?
The question is wrong. The question should sound like: what's the way to reach the target I want to reach? So you need to define a problem to solve before applying multiband compression. For example, if you have rock sound, the main target is (for example) to maximum reduce the dynamic range of peaks while keeping the sound of track clean. So to solve this problem you set small attack and release time for each band, apply pretty high compression rate but set up threshold so that in most cases compressors for each band do not work or work insignificantly. You should apply processing so that you won't break the first rule of sound engineer: "Do not break/spoil anything".
LSP (Linux Studio Plugins) Developer and Maintainer.
Post Reply