My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

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danboid
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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby danboid » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:08 pm

+1 ssj

That KVR thread seems to have become quite the hot topic since I started it! Yay!

I'm happy as it has brought more exposure to where Linux Audio currently stands and my plight for more plugin ports. People talking about Linux audio, even critically is good so long as what they say is true (like the poor state of HDMI audio support) and there are more than a fair share of Linux fans popping up throughout that thread, people who likely aren't on this forum.

Its funny how one of the main posters in that KVR thread is a Linux fan/dev/ admin who would seems to prefer Linux audio just not to happen at all. Its like he doesn't want another platform choice for his musical tasks, even if its the platform he advocates for other computing tasks. Quite bizarre - I'll just leave him to it!

If nothing else, this thread has revealed that the author of the Wusik plugins is interested in porting to Linux, at least. If it has inspired one person to check out LA or port their stuff to Linux, that thread has done the trick.

I've lost a lot of interest in it now as it seems to have desdcended into clueless or horrbibly outdated cliches, miconceptions and FUD/trolling (ala the "I would only use Linux if there'd been a horrific nuclear war and te only machines left ran Linux" "Only at gunpoint" etc hilarious jokes about Linux interjected with general smartphone chit-chat. It got largely OT after the first 10/11 pages and I'd largely be repeating myself now so I can hopefully restrain myself and let it run its course.
Last edited by danboid on Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby Eino » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:25 pm

i don't consider myself a Linux guru, or even a sound engineer. But I have switched totally to Linux, and I love it. I don't Do anything fancy. But I can still play and record, midi music like I have done in the past. It's just the software took a little study, before I could use it at first. I don't even use wine for anything,

It's just the Idiot's that need everything working out of the box without configuring anything, that cry a lot.
"Music is everybody's possession. It's only publishers who think that people own it. "
John Lennon

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AlexTheBassist
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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby AlexTheBassist » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:33 am

bazsound wrote:ive manged to get a pretty convincing bass guitar tone from an acoustic guitar


If you read my posts (you seem not to do it), then you'll probably notice that I didn't ever asked about making artificial bass tones. I need to process a real bass. That means that I have a fiver, play it, record DI tracks with it and then those tracks need to be processed. The technique you describe is a desecration of bass idea itself: you suggest to add tons of mud, low-mid harsh and no mids/highs. The result is overwhelming low-frequency mud which is surely unsuitable even for playback. Try it on a real bass before suggesting, okay?
Being creative does not imply being lazy, stupid, or illiterate.

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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby glowrak guy » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:06 pm

stanlea wrote:The thread on KVR is going nuts. This glowrak guy is showing the opposite of what is free software spirit, being narrow minded and unable to understand other's people arguments. Really a waste of time.
For many years, I have promoted linux audio, in somewhat hostile territory,
and I also learned a lot about it, from more knowledgable linux users there. The main linux topic,
is in the Computers forum http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 6&t=160807

There are nearly 170,000 page views, as opposed to less than 40,000, for this entire forum.
So when I mention kx, or guitarix, or rakarrack, or wineasio etc etc there are a lot of eyes
reading. You may think I am narrow minded, falk may think I am a 'cancer', but that
actually underscores some reasons windows/mac users mention for not liking
the linux community 'support', along with rejecting 'linux for audio', on what they see
as the merits.

I would much prefer you to address me personally, in the actual location of the topic,
rather than come back here for your name-calling. Briandc has comported himself well
as a gentleman, enthusiast, and an active contributor, I would hope that in the future,
you and falk will do the same. KVR is a great resource to promote linux,
despite the occasional flareups. Posting announcements, tips, videos, and sound examples,
will go a long way towards convincing people to consider linux as a viable alternative.
If it were a soccer score, of 17 to 4... :wink:

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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby stanlea » Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:12 pm

glowrak guy wrote:For many years, I have promoted linux audio, in somewhat hostile territory,
and I also learned a lot about it, from more knowledgable linux users there. The main linux topic,
is in the Computers forum http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 6&t=160807
There are nearly 170,000 page views, as opposed to less than 40,000, for this entire forum.


I stopped posting in this thread because of your behaviour : that's 170000 views of self-floodesque assertions, showing the dark side of the Linux force. Unfiltered news, and always this "my dick is longer than yours" attitude. You promote the idea that windows apps runflawlessly under Linux, that is not true, and will never be stable. I strongly believe that you prevent interested people from trying Linux for audio.

glowrak guy wrote:I would much prefer you to address me personally, in the actual location of the topic,
rather than come back here for your name-calling. Briandc has comported himself well
as a gentleman, enthusiast, and an active contributor, I would hope that in the future,
you and falk will do the same. KVR is a great resource to promote linux,
despite the occasional flareups. Posting announcements, tips, videos, and sound examples,
will go a long way towards convincing people to consider linux as a viable alternative.
If it were a soccer score, of 17 to 4... :wink:


I have been a modest contributor, see my posts :

I am a happy Linux audio user, among others. We come in peace.

Why did I feel the need to speak so ?


glowrak wrote::I've never heard of George Martin...

:dog:

(Did you know the existence of "search engines" ?)
I'd still like to know why the Linux community has issues with some of us not being interested in their OS.




As part of the Linux community, I don't care at all if people are not interested. Do not consider one or two people's opinion as the opinion of a community. I hate all kind of proselytism, including OS choice. :roll:

I think that we have the answer to the original post. In fact, a lot of answers.

I'd just like to sort some facts :

Linux is free software : that is not an argument, just a fact. One can choose free software.
Linux does not work for audio : false.
Linux does not work for audio as well as mac or windows : true, if you consider the drivers issues.
Linux has jack at its heart : not like windows or mac. You can live without jack, you may want to live with it.
Linux has less good software than w&m : yes.
Linux has no good software : nope.
Linux, Windows and Mac has childish fans : yes

I switched to Linux because :
- it works for me
- if don't like the idea of buying windows every 4 years, even OEM
- jack
- native live coding
- geek spirit
- some cool people here
- weird experimental stuff
and I'm happy. Dot.



Code: Select all

Does Linux audio pro have Autotune and a piano roll cuz I'm gonna be big.

Yup, all zat and the full KK stuff too.

Didn't you feel that there was some needed humour there ?

You can run FL Studio in Ubuntu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B1oZPfSXjo

Now, seeing this, I'll probably switch!!

Run, certainly, produce music,I doubt.


And more, sense of reality. Open software needs open minds.

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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby StudioDave » Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:30 pm

glowrak guy wrote:For many years, I have promoted linux audio, in somewhat hostile territory...


Hey buddy !

Perhaps you and I should make our private correspondence public. I doubt you'd be perceived as quite so carcinogenic then. Weird maybe, but certainly not requiring a chemo dependency. :)

re: the original thread: Might as well have posted it on Slashdot. KVR is not Linux-unfriendly, but I avoid some parts of it like the plague (viz. the Reaper forum), and opening up such a discussion there is an open invitation to fanboys both offensive and defensive. But if that's what folks like to read, more power to 'em. Me, I have plenty of music to make, and avoiding polemics is a prerequisite to making it.

Best,

dp

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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby glowrak guy » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:53 am

I'm try mostly to stay in that 'plenty of music to make' boat,
although, as in this case, I occassionly drop an oar by mistake,
or perhaps even throw one, if I stumble upon enough of a temptation :wink:
and then must circle about the pond trying to retrieve it.
Cheers

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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby glowrak guy » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:56 am

@ Stanlea, If I've not heard of somebody, how can I search for them?
I can't spend my time in search engines, randomly typing in
what I guess to be names. Don't know everybody, don't care too.
Miles to go before I sleep.

I don't claim all windows apps run great in wine, neither do I claim
all linux apps run great in linux. Experience shows both to be false,
but certainly there are fine examples where both are true,
and my computer-religion allows me the freedom of speech, to say so.

Please tighten up your quoting, nothing you quoted after your George Martin snark,
was posted by me. You might want to edit that, to maintain credibility.
Cheers

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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby glowrak guy » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:11 am

stanlea wrote: that's 170000 views of self-floodesque assertions, showing the dark side of the Linux force. Unfiltered news, and always this "my dick is longer than yours" attitude. You promote the idea that windows apps runflawlessly under Linux, that is not true, and will never be stable. I strongly believe that you prevent interested people from trying Linux for audio.
glowrak guy wrote:

Wrong. Actually, the whole wineasio thing, got great coverage there,
also the linux and windows versions of EnergyXT, as do zynaddsubfx,
hydrogen, and many other useful apps. Not to mention throngs of detailed
posts by people who help new linux users get qjackctl, and other linux staples working,
If you're such a linux purist, do you don an adult diaper, when you read about the windows versions
of kx code that falktx works on? :roll:

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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby glowrak guy » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:44 am

There are several civil linux related threads in the kvr bitwig forum,
with some great discoveries and contributions, that have helped me
greatly in testing it with the normal collection of native linux apps.
It's still early, but getting better with each release, whether it comes from
the userbase, or the 'home office'.
Cheers

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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby stanlea » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:05 am

glowrak guy wrote:@ Stanlea, If I've not heard of somebody, how can I search for them?
I can't spend my time in search engines, randomly typing in
what I guess to be names. Don't know everybody, don't care too.
Miles to go before I sleep.


Try again : you should know who is George Martin... if you want to speak of production means.

glowrak guy wrote:I don't claim all windows apps run great in wine, neither do I claim
all linux apps run great in linux. Experience shows both to be false,
but certainly there are fine examples where both are true,
and my computer-religion allows me the freedom of speech, to say so.


Better this way.

glowrak guy wrote:Please tighten up your quoting, nothing you quoted after your George Martin snark,
was posted by me. You might want to edit that, to maintain credibility.
Cheers

Please take the time to read the post, I said Iwas quoting myself to show you my own posts in the thread.

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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby stanlea » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:09 am

glowrak guy wrote:
stanlea wrote: that's 170000 views of self-floodesque assertions, showing the dark side of the Linux force. Unfiltered news, and always this "my dick is longer than yours" attitude. You promote the idea that windows apps runflawlessly under Linux, that is not true, and will never be stable. I strongly believe that you prevent interested people from trying Linux for audio.
glowrak guy wrote:

Wrong. Actually, the whole wineasio thing, got great coverage there,
also the linux and windows versions of EnergyXT, as do zynaddsubfx,
hydrogen, and many other useful apps. Not to mention throngs of detailed
posts by people who help new linux users get qjackctl, and other linux staples working,
If you're such a linux purist, do you don an adult diaper, when you read about the windows versions
of kx code that falktx works on? :roll:


I'm happy to have windows apps working, but in my view it's not reason to switch to Linux : the best os to run windows apps is still windows. I'm not a purist, I'm pragmatic.

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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby diizy » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:30 pm

Why people should switch to Linux for audio production?

Simple answer: open source.

Some might say, "oh, but do those open source apps have this feature X which I have in ProTools/Logic/Reason/Reaper/Garageband/Cubase/etc/etc" and if they don't, "well why should I use them then, I just want the best tool for the job, I need this feature for my work, I'm a pro musician etc".

But although that's a reasonable - or at least understandable - point of view, it's kind of short-sighted. The thing is, when you use and support open source development, you are directly contributing to something big, something revolutionary, something that benefits the entire human species as a whole. Supporting open development is the same as building a better future for all mankind. And we all have a responsibility to build a better future, because if not you then who?

I can also accept the argument: "I think what I do with my job/my music/my volunteer work/supporting charities/etc already contributes to building a better future, and I can do it better if I have better tools to do it". That's fine, if you think you can contribute better that way - it's a matter of opinion. I think it's still somewhat short-sighted in a way, but it's understandable and we all just do what we can, and I'm not going to make any demands of anybody - I don't have the right.

However, I think even if people don't want to full-on switch to Linux, they should still support development of open-source tools, DAWs, applications and plugins at least to some extent - for example, support ZynAddSubFx, even if you just use it in your proprietary windows DAW. Because supporting open source is something that will ensure that there will also be a future, and that the future isn't one where creative activity becomes locked behind paywalls or market barriers, but rather one where we can all contribute and all gain the benefits. It's like a social responsibility. Artistic and intellectual people should be at the forefront of these kinds of issues - it kind of comes with the territory...

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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby glowrak guy » Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:58 am

diizy wrote:"oh, but do those open source apps have this feature X which I have in ProTools/Logic/Reason/Reaper/Garageband/Cubase/etc/etc" and if they don't, "well why should I use them then, I just want the best tool for the job, I need this feature for my work, I'm a pro musician etc".
I doubt many people use 90% of the deep feature lists, probably stick mainly to core functions,
and a handful of items that suit their personal workflow. And then buy some other daw,
when they've seen the new holy grail feature on some youtube, that actually will solve
a workflow bottleneck they dislike. Pretty soon, they've dropped a couple $thousand, on diminishing
returns, because the hours of new learning curves, are deducted from the same old 24 hour days,
leaving fewer hours to actually be productive. Sure, the new killer feature might save you 30 seconds
20 times a month. $500 for a new daw, to save ten minutes a month :roll: And it takes how many billable hours,
to get the new workflow down to enough of a science, to actually begin recouping the loss? Thud. :lol:

I would hate to go shopping with my own money, to replace hydrogen, hexter, rakarrack, yoshimi,
calf, and guitarix, (among others) with superior products, not to mention burning long hours learning,
instead of playing and recording, and enjoying the results.
Cheers

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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby bluebell » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:43 am

Don't underestimate the kind of musicians who spend lots of their time playing around with DAWs, effects, compressors and reverbs and produce hardly one song. They have fun exploring the technical aspects although some of them claim that they "just want to make music". They discuss Bob Katz's articles about mastering again and again, they compare dozens of limiters and discuss about how to move the singer's voice some tiny little bit to the front. They rate other people's songs mainly if they're mixed and postprocessed well and their comments are like "you should add one dB at 2200 Hz and sidechain-duck the bass with the lower frequencies of the kick drum.

Those people love each additional feature because they enjoy exploring and playing with them. And they are many - if not the majority when counted by the money spent for tools.
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