My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

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ssj71
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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby ssj71 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:04 pm

I'll have to pull the latest and rebuild then. Sorry for the misinformation.
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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby ssj71 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:27 pm

danboid wrote:When you say advertising I presume you mean people doing things like starting threads like I have here on mainly non-Linux forums in order to try drum up interest (that's one of the main reasons I did that, if you didn't guess) because this community certainly lacks funds for advertising!

Absolutely. It lacks funds for most everything, but it still chugs on (though admittedly corporate sponsorship is a major contributor to the success of linux). I think it will have to be a grassroots campaign of sorts, word of mouth etc. The thread is good for increasing awareness, but we need 1000s of such threads, and preferably rather than soliciting discussion of the shortcomings of linux the threads say "this is why I love linux" or "check out this amazing song made on linux," "how to get that amazing sound on linux" etc. It would be great if we could get some big name artist to use linux exclusively and endorse it or buy youtube advertising slots, but we've got to get videos first. In my opinion we need LOTS and LOTS more youtube videos showcasing linux audio tools and works.

danboid wrote:What Linux needs to make more converts is free Linux-only apps that compete well with equivalent Windows / OSX software. Tracktion is one of the few examples I can think of as I don't know of anything that good thats free (as in beer) under Windows or OSX. Maybe I'm missing something? IMO A3 isn't quite up to the level of polish and feature set of Tracktion yet, A3 has a mostly complete OSX port and I expect A3 will get ported to Windows post Mixbus adopting an A3 base. One app (Tracktion, that is cheaply available for the other platforms) isn't going to gain us many converts. There are lots of good, free plugins for Linux but there are even more for OSX and Windows.

I'm of the opinion that A3 has a complete enough feature set to be desirable to most users. Its currently facing some unfortunate bugs that potentially result in lost data IIUC, but once those are ironed out and the midi is fixed up its an enviable daw to contend with. I agree more apps will appeal to a broader swath of folks, but most people will only use 1 DAW anyway. We just need them to want to use non, Qtractor, ardour, bitwig, or traction. I really think part of the reason is people don't know about these or linux as an audio OS in general.

danboid wrote:I do recall the at1 LV2 port now but I don't expect it performs any differently from the standalone JACK app, does it? I didn't have much luck with that.

You definitely have to find the right settings, and it won't work miracles to fix a really bad performance, but I've corrected some pretty far off stuff before. You'd just mentioned it would be more convenient as a plugin. Its not as fully featured I think as melodyne (which I've never used), but for your daily tweaking a vocal thats a hair flat, its great. The documentation is here http://kokkinizita.linuxaudio.org/linux ... guide.html it might help. The bias, filter and correction settings offer a wide variety of results and if you get the wrong setting it doesn't sound natural at all.
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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby sysrqer » Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:22 pm

One of the things that put me off at first was the modularity. If you suggest to a WIndows user that they can use qtractor to sequence midi, send the midi to carla and then route that in to non-mixer, as well as having to patch it all up in Catia, then save the session with something like NSM, they are not going to be attracted by the idea of it. I think in some ways this is the strength of how audio works in the linux environment but most Windows users are used to one program doing everything rather than splitting tasks in to a few or lots of programs that do one thing well.

As danboid said, it seems to only really be Tracktion that is a realistic, feature rich, candidate in linux which can do pretty much anything you'd want to do. Ardour is great but it is seriously lacking in some areas and is very unstable for some people (like me) when using midi. I won't bother going through all the things that all the programs we have lack but I found there is generally something in all of them.

Of course, there is always Bitwig as well which would keep many Windows users happy all in one.

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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby Eino » Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:11 am

bazsound wrote:what made me change was getting tired of having to reinstall windows after it slowed down and became buggy after just a few months use. this was admitedly back in windows xp.

but also sick of having to have virus checkers, firewalls, adware etc installed and hogging system resources.

Since ive made the switch ive had linux running for way longer, and only reinstalled when i messed it up. If i dont mess it up, it runs reliably and consistantly under the same hardware that windows did not.

It was also nice to have the choice betweem distros and guis i could choose from and even customise.

once you get used to the terminal and learn how to use it, its actually faster to get stuff done, compiling software isnt that hard once you understand dependancies and learn how to find and install them.

ontop of all that, its free.


I totally agree
May I add, the planned obsolescence of Windows so it no longer supports the hardware you have, forcing you to go out, and buy new computer. Whereas Linux kernels seem to live forever.
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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby tramp » Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:06 am

AlexTheBassist wrote: Also, there's no good bass amp simulation. Guitarix does the job, but it still feels like a guitar plugin, thus requires additional tweaks and tricks to make for the right sound.

Here is a (nice) example for a Bass-like tone with guitarix:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqx3SC5nD4s
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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby AlexTheBassist » Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:33 pm

tramp wrote:Here is a (nice) example for a Bass-like tone with guitarix:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqx3SC5nD4s


This isn't even a bit close to real bass tone. That guy didn't even use a pitch shifter. When I say "bass", I mean bass, not guitar. When I say "bass tone"... Guess what I mean. So, getting a good bass tone on Linux is real but way too complicated. That's what I'm saying. Also, someday I'll release a preset pack for Guitarix which will contain some bass tones, too, but bass sounds will not be as sood as guitar-oriented ones because of lack of bass amps/tonestacks models.
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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby bazsound » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:57 am

ive manged to get a pretty convincing bass guitar tone from an acoustic guitar by using vpscaler to detune and then a combination of calf bass enhancer, eq and compression.

Admitidly it is almost a bit midi sounding, but it worked well.

Not any use live though as the latency is too high, but since latency compensation works quite well its usable for a recorded song.

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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby stanlea » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:21 am

The thread on KVR is going nuts. This glowrak guy is showing the opposite of what is free software spirit, being narrow minded and unable to understand other's people arguments. Really a waste of time.

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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby briandc » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:43 am

There are several issues at hand, imo, on the KVR thread. One is the need for porting Windows apps to linux. As much as the linux applications are good in doing what they do, there are many non-free applications that probably will never be brought into linux unless used in Wine. So in that sense, Wine is probably something to support in the long-term. A seasoned linux user will probably move away from Wine once other linux-based software is familiar, but in the beginning, people want comfort of familiarity. (I suppose I was the same way when I started using linux, albeit not for music production initially..)

Another issue is ease of use. Lots of people are only end-users who want the milk without buying the cow. Which is fine, and if the linux community can make them happy, all the better. But it's also important for people to understand (imo) that linux is a "proactive" OS, whereas other OSs are "reactive." People aren't used to getting involved, and I think they miss part of the fun of it. (And it certainly doesn't mean that you have to spend all your time coding or whatever.)

Another misnomer is the idea that "free is not professional/good quality." Encouraging people to move to linux means providing quality apps, and I think we're on the way already. :)


Encourage people to get involved. And get involved in intelligent ways. I don't think we need more distros. We've got hundreds (or thousands) by now. What is needed is focused work on specific apps, with specific capabilities.

One thing I'm seeing lately, is a need for improvement in the area of arpeggiators. Making a quick way to introduce notes in an arp, have them playable in polyphony without lagtime, and with a few different options, such as note-sort, random play, touch sensitivity, etc.
QmidiArp is a good app that would be greatly improved with a few additional functions. I'd be happy to support this endeavor..!


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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby ssj71 » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:07 pm

I think these sort of threads trying to proselyte the Linux way aren't effective. In fact they probably end up hurting the linux image a little. This one started innocuously enough, but I think the response to criticism of linux isn't quite right. I think the best way for us to respond with "They don't have tool X" we need to be able to say, "it didn't stop artist X <link>." Briandc has a point that people make the music not the tools but we need to show it, not say it. Share linux with people who are interested, don't try to convince people who aren't. Those uninterested people might become interested through seeing excellent work being done on linux, but never through any forum argument.

Just my thoughts.
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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby briandc » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:44 pm

ssj71 wrote:I think these sort of threads trying to proselyte the Linux way aren't effective. In fact they probably end up hurting the linux image a little. This one started innocuously enough, but I think the response to criticism of linux isn't quite right. I think the best way for us to respond with "They don't have tool X" we need to be able to say, "it didn't stop artist X <link>." Briandc has a point that people make the music not the tools but we need to show it, not say it. Share linux with people who are interested, don't try to convince people who aren't. Those uninterested people might become interested through seeing excellent work being done on linux, but never through any forum argument.

Just my thoughts.


I think you're 200% right! ;)

In fact, I need to stop being lazy and get a few videos made. I'm curious to try SimpleScreenRecorder (not in my repos but can be added here) : http://www.maartenbaert.be/simplescreenrecorder/

Putting stuff on youtube is a great medium, I think. And maybe audio sites like soundcloud or jamendo. And of course, live performances! (I hope to be doing some of that this summer in my area..)


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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby danboid » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:08 pm

+1 ssj

That KVR thread seems to have become quite the hot topic since I started it! Yay!

I'm happy as it has brought more exposure to where Linux Audio currently stands and my plight for more plugin ports. People talking about Linux audio, even critically is good so long as what they say is true (like the poor state of HDMI audio support) and there are more than a fair share of Linux fans popping up throughout that thread, people who likely aren't on this forum.

Its funny how one of the main posters in that KVR thread is a Linux fan/dev/ admin who would seems to prefer Linux audio just not to happen at all. Its like he doesn't want another platform choice for his musical tasks, even if its the platform he advocates for other computing tasks. Quite bizarre - I'll just leave him to it!

If nothing else, this thread has revealed that the author of the Wusik plugins is interested in porting to Linux, at least. If it has inspired one person to check out LA or port their stuff to Linux, that thread has done the trick.

I've lost a lot of interest in it now as it seems to have desdcended into clueless or horrbibly outdated cliches, miconceptions and FUD/trolling (ala the "I would only use Linux if there'd been a horrific nuclear war and te only machines left ran Linux" "Only at gunpoint" etc hilarious jokes about Linux interjected with general smartphone chit-chat. It got largely OT after the first 10/11 pages and I'd largely be repeating myself now so I can hopefully restrain myself and let it run its course.
Last edited by danboid on Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby Eino » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:25 pm

i don't consider myself a Linux guru, or even a sound engineer. But I have switched totally to Linux, and I love it. I don't Do anything fancy. But I can still play and record, midi music like I have done in the past. It's just the software took a little study, before I could use it at first. I don't even use wine for anything,

It's just the Idiot's that need everything working out of the box without configuring anything, that cry a lot.
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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby AlexTheBassist » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:33 am

bazsound wrote:ive manged to get a pretty convincing bass guitar tone from an acoustic guitar


If you read my posts (you seem not to do it), then you'll probably notice that I didn't ever asked about making artificial bass tones. I need to process a real bass. That means that I have a fiver, play it, record DI tracks with it and then those tracks need to be processed. The technique you describe is a desecration of bass idea itself: you suggest to add tons of mud, low-mid harsh and no mids/highs. The result is overwhelming low-frequency mud which is surely unsuitable even for playback. Try it on a real bass before suggesting, okay?
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Re: My KVR 'What stops you switching to Linux' thread

Postby glowrak guy » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:06 pm

stanlea wrote:The thread on KVR is going nuts. This glowrak guy is showing the opposite of what is free software spirit, being narrow minded and unable to understand other's people arguments. Really a waste of time.
For many years, I have promoted linux audio, in somewhat hostile territory,
and I also learned a lot about it, from more knowledgable linux users there. The main linux topic,
is in the Computers forum http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 6&t=160807

There are nearly 170,000 page views, as opposed to less than 40,000, for this entire forum.
So when I mention kx, or guitarix, or rakarrack, or wineasio etc etc there are a lot of eyes
reading. You may think I am narrow minded, falk may think I am a 'cancer', but that
actually underscores some reasons windows/mac users mention for not liking
the linux community 'support', along with rejecting 'linux for audio', on what they see
as the merits.

I would much prefer you to address me personally, in the actual location of the topic,
rather than come back here for your name-calling. Briandc has comported himself well
as a gentleman, enthusiast, and an active contributor, I would hope that in the future,
you and falk will do the same. KVR is a great resource to promote linux,
despite the occasional flareups. Posting announcements, tips, videos, and sound examples,
will go a long way towards convincing people to consider linux as a viable alternative.
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