Multiband compressor suitable for mastering

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Quirq
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Multiband compressor suitable for mastering

Post by Quirq »

I've finally reached a stage where I have material that I need to master and also have the skills to have a reasonable stab at it.

linuxDSP's BlackEQ covers the equalisation aspect of it very nicely, but where I'm struggling is finding a decent multiband compressor that meets my needs:
  • Transparent
  • Attack time: needs decent length of attack, over 100 ms
  • Three band: any more overcomplicates things
  • Plugin: saves a lot of faffing around if the entire signal chain and effect settings are in Ardour
  • Stereo: not a huge deal, but saves a bit of routing work
  • Link: ability to gang all three bands together would be very useful (this is an even bigger deal if you have to use twoinstances to achieve a stereo compressor)
  • Band solo: very useful, but not a deal-breaker
None of the multibands I've seen have a link facility, but it's more of a nice-to-have than anything else. Not all have band solo; again, it's nice to have, especially when setting the crossover frequencies, but not essential.

The linuxDSP multiband is very nice, but it's four band and the way the crossovers work you can't use it as a three-band. Also, the maximum attack time is 10 ms, which means it's out. I've been meaning to post in the linuxDSP forum over at KVR but haven't got around to it yet.

I've just tried Jamin again and the only thing that really lets it down is the fact that it's not a plugin (and Ardour won't let me create an external send for some reason "Cannot set up new send: unable to create port: failed constructor"), which makes it a bit faffy. Also faffy having to save a Jamin session to be able to recall the full mastering session at a later date.

Calf is four band, but the way the crossovers are set up (all are full range) you can use it as a three band. The attack times are full range. Where it falls totally flat is on transparency. Maybe I'm missing something, but with all the bands set with a ratio of 1 and a threshold of 0 (i.e. not acting on the signal, right?) it is colouring the sound quite markedly. There sounds to be a bit of a bass boost and the highs are low-passed.

I find the way MDA multiband's values are numbered off-putting (if I were more skilled I'd be able to set things by ear, but I'm not, so I need stuff in Hz and ms :oops:).

Just yesterday, thanks to the forum, I discovered the ZamAudio plugins. the ZaMultiband is a little faffy with being mono and having to route through two instances (which makes changing six lots of settings far from quick) and the maximum attack time is 80 ms which is a bit short. It also lacks band solo, which would be nice but isn't really an issue. But otherwise it's easy to use and sounds transparent to my base-metal ears :lol: I've actually achieved a very nice result with it so it will likely be my go-to MBC for the time being.

I'm not sure how, but I'd not come across the ZamAudio plugins until yesterday (there's a lesson in there about frequenting this forum more, er, frequently :wink:). So, are there any other options that I'm blissfully unaware of? Anyone have any other thoughts on the matter?
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Re: Multiband compressor suitable for mastering

Post by Pablo »

Ardour won't let me create an external send for some reason
In ardour, you need an insert for external software or hardware.

EDIT. There is also LV2_fil, 4-band parametric.
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Re: Multiband compressor suitable for mastering

Post by lucianodato »

Hello! Have you tried to compile lastest git from calf repo? There are new Linkwitz-Riley crossover implemented.
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Re: Multiband compressor suitable for mastering

Post by Quirq »

Pablo wrote:
Ardour won't let me create an external send for some reason
In ardour, you need an insert for external software or hardware.
It wasn't letting me create anything, but now I've re-opened the session it's fine: there was obviously something weird going on yesterday. Still, I'd find the workflow a bit of a pain not having the entire signal chain within Ardour, but I guess it could be an option if all else fails.
Pablo wrote:EDIT. There is also LV2_fil, 4-band parametric.
Eh? That's not a multiband compressor.
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Re: Multiband compressor suitable for mastering

Post by Quirq »

lucianodato wrote:Hello! Have you tried to compile lastest git from calf repo? There are new Linkwitz-Riley crossover implemented.
No, I hadn't. I've just spent ages installing a load of dev packages until I got to:

Code: Select all

configure: error: fluidsynth library not found
Installing that, Synaptic wants to remove what looks like most of Ubuntu Studio, plus GoogleEarth :lol:
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Re: Multiband compressor suitable for mastering

Post by lucianodato »

I believe that you must install libfluidsynth-dev package in order to compile calf plugins from source, I don't know though because I'm on arch right now.
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Re: Multiband compressor suitable for mastering

Post by Quirq »

lucianodato wrote:I believe that you must install libfluidsynth-dev package in order to compile calf plugins from source
Yes, I'd gathered that. I won't be doing it though: I'm surprised installing one little dev package would want to remove so much of the system.

I'll just have to wait until some packages the latest version with the new crossovers. From what I've read about the different filters, it sounds as though that might correct the issue I was having with the Calf multiband, which would be nice.
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Re: Multiband compressor suitable for mastering

Post by aprzekaz »

I'm only aware of the options you mentioned as well. For some reason I feel like I once read that Jamin was just a conglomeration of a set of plugins that were available separately but I'm not sure which ones (or even if this is true). On a side note I'm just curious which limiter will you use?

EDIT: actually I think it is the TAP plugins but there isn't a multiband dynamics plugin that I can see.
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Re: Multiband compressor suitable for mastering

Post by Quirq »

aprzekaz wrote:For some reason I feel like I once read that Jamin was just a conglomeration of a set of plugins that were available separately but I'm not sure which ones (or even if this is true). On a side note I'm just curious which limiter will you use?

EDIT: actually I think it is the TAP plugins but there isn't a multiband dynamics plugin that I can see.
I think it's a collection of some of the Steve Harris (SWH) plugins isn't it? But that's the thing, isn't it just three instances of a normal compressor with the crossovers implemented in Jamin itself, rather than a specific multiband compressor? That was my recollection anyway.

I certainly wouldn't use the EQ side of Jamin as I recall a discussion on LAU a while ago about the EQ and the less than ideal way it's implemented. Plus, I don't feel there's enough control compared with say the BlackEQ.

I used the FOO Limiter, but there was no particular reasoning behind my choice.
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Re: Multiband compressor suitable for mastering

Post by ssj71 »

you can always build your own multiband compressor with plugins. Kinda a pain, but you can make it a template in ardour IIRC. That will give you the most control. And it'll make the band solo easy. :)
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Re: Multiband compressor suitable for mastering

Post by Quirq »

ssj71 wrote:you can always build your own multiband compressor with plugins.
But is there the right sort of crossovers/filters available to do it right (like the ones mentioned above used in the latest version of the Calf plugin)? I wouldn't trust myself not to mess it up :lol:
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Re: Multiband compressor suitable for mastering

Post by dednikko »

Quirq wrote:
ssj71 wrote:you can always build your own multiband compressor with plugins.
But is there the right sort of crossovers/filters available to do it right (like the ones mentioned above used in the latest version of the Calf plugin)? I wouldn't trust myself not to mess it up :lol:

In my experience, there are no transparent "crossover only" plugins available, and there isn't anything even close that isn't built into the LinuxDSP MBC2B. I really wish there were though. Heck, maybe LinuxDSP could break the crossovers out of the plugin for a less pricey plugin. I'd pay $40 for all the time it'd save.

A solution that we concocted is:

1-Have the original track send to 4 busses. Each bus needs it's own LinuxDSP MBC2B. (It's the only thing with transparent crossovers I have found in Linux).
2-Solo just one band on each bus. This should give you transparent output. We've A/Bd it as the studio and it seems clear, but we'd been mixing all day, so definitely check for yourself.
3-Compress each buss as you'd like with something with more flexible compression times and ratios, such as the calf compressor, or perhaps Invada's LV2 comp.
4- Send all busses to the master out for final limiting and blah blah whatever.

5-Make another copy of the track so you can have it output ONLY to the hardware outs. This will allow you to A/B simply by muting/soloing this track.

I hope this helps!
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Re: Multiband compressor suitable for mastering

Post by male »

I'm sure this isn't what you want to hear, but have you considered the fact that if you need a multiband compressor at the mastering stage that that is an indication of problems with the mix that could be better solved in the mixing context/stage? Unless you're stuck with stereo mixdowns, I don't see much point in trying to dissect the audio so late in the process.
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Re: Multiband compressor suitable for mastering

Post by Ricardus »

male wrote:I'm sure this isn't what you want to hear, but have you considered the fact that if you need a multiband compressor at the mastering stage that that is an indication of problems with the mix that could be better solved in the mixing context/stage? Unless you're stuck with stereo mixdowns, I don't see much point in trying to dissect the audio so late in the process.
Why does using a multi-band comp to master imply that something is wrong with the mix? Most mastering engineers use multi-bands in mastering.

I master with the 4-band comp from LinuxDSP all of the time. I am curious to hear why the OP thinks a 4 band comp is a problem,
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Re: Multiband compressor suitable for mastering

Post by Quirq »

dednikko wrote:In my experience, there are no transparent "crossover only" plugins available, and there isn't anything even close that isn't built into the LinuxDSP MBC2B. I really wish there were though. Heck, maybe LinuxDSP could break the crossovers out of the plugin for a less pricey plugin. I'd pay $40 for all the time it'd save.

A solution that we concocted is:

1-Have the original track send to 4 busses. Each bus needs it's own LinuxDSP MBC2B. (It's the only thing with transparent crossovers I have found in Linux).
2-Solo just one band on each bus. This should give you transparent output. We've A/Bd it as the studio and it seems clear, but we'd been mixing all day, so definitely check for yourself.
3-Compress each buss as you'd like with something with more flexible compression times and ratios, such as the calf compressor, or perhaps Invada's LV2 comp.
4- Send all busses to the master out for final limiting and blah blah whatever.

5-Make another copy of the track so you can have it output ONLY to the hardware outs. This will allow you to A/B simply by muting/soloing this track.

I hope this helps!
Absolutely, many thanks for that it's a neat solution.
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