Gah....

Official support for the KXStudio Linux distribution and applications.
More info at http://kxstudio.linuxaudio.org/

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millerthegorilla
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Gah....

Postby millerthegorilla » Mon May 20, 2019 2:26 pm

I've just tried to install ubuntu studio and add the kxstudio repositories.

What the idiots have done is beyond belief. They have removed jackdbus and parcelled it exclusively with ubuntu-studio-controls, and so you can no longer install the repos over the top of ubuntu studio. Its enraging. Its the absolute opposite of the thesis of opensource software, and I wouldn't be surprised if falktx didn't take time out in frustration.
And it is frustrating. Ubuntu studio effectively becomes a closed source operation, since you are tied to use their software, or not at all, as if you try and install cadence, it won't run due to there being no jackdbus available in the ubuntu studio repos. Why would the ubuntu project allow the removal of jackdbus from their repos? I don't get it.
GAH!
I'm now going to try and use a kde neon base, or similar and try and install the kxstudio repositories. Damn.

zoco
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Re: Gah....

Postby zoco » Mon May 20, 2019 5:49 pm

Dalai Lama says it. Nothing remains. Everything changes. :D

Install regular ubuntu with low-latency kernal to install everything you want?
Or jump into AV Linux? http://www.bandshed.net/avlinux/

jonetsu
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Re: Gah....

Postby jonetsu » Mon May 20, 2019 9:40 pm

I use Xubuntu 18.04 LTS with the provided low-latency kernel. Works fine.

i5-3570 CPU @ 3.40GHz
16 GB RAM
M-Audio 1010LT

Kott
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Re: Gah....

Postby Kott » Tue May 21, 2019 9:55 am

So you cannot install jackdbus from other repo, why? I don't use Ubuntu Stusio, that's why I'm asking)

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Re: Gah....

Postby tavasti » Tue May 21, 2019 10:01 am

If needed, most likely you can get rid of all ubuntustudio packages & repos, and replace stuff with normal ubuntu packages.

And sure, there is always option to build everything you need.
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raboof
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Re: Gah....

Postby raboof » Tue May 21, 2019 2:26 pm

millerthegorilla wrote:What the idiots have done is beyond belief. (...) I wouldn't be surprised if falktx didn't take time out in frustration.


A common reason for open source maintainers to burn out is when users act entitled and even call them names in public - like you just did. Please don't, nobody deserves that.

By all means vent your frustration about the "state of things", but don't make it personal.

millerthegorilla wrote:Why would the ubuntu project allow the removal of jackdbus from their repos? I don't get it.


https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?sear ... n&arch=any suggests it is in the 'jackd2' package, do you have that installed?

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Re: Gah....

Postby lilith » Tue May 21, 2019 4:01 pm

My comment was a joke btw. I have no issue with ubuntu studio or the devs.
https://soundcloud.com/lilith_93

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raboof
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Re: Gah....

Postby raboof » Tue May 21, 2019 4:14 pm

lilith wrote:My comment was a joke btw. I have no issue with ubuntu studio or the devs.

Yeah, I figured as much but it wasn't completely clear and it didn't seem like a particularly good joke so I assumed you wouldn't mind if I removed the post ;).

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Re: Gah....

Postby lilith » Tue May 21, 2019 4:24 pm

It was the best joke ever :lol:
https://soundcloud.com/lilith_93

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CrocoDuck
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Re: Gah....

Postby CrocoDuck » Tue May 21, 2019 5:15 pm

millerthegorilla wrote:I've just tried to install ubuntu studio and add the kxstudio repositories.

What the idiots have done is beyond belief. They have removed jackdbus and parcelled it exclusively with ubuntu-studio-controls, and so you can no longer install the repos over the top of ubuntu studio. Its enraging. Its the absolute opposite of the thesis of opensource software, and I wouldn't be surprised if falktx didn't take time out in frustration.
And it is frustrating. Ubuntu studio effectively becomes a closed source operation, since you are tied to use their software, or not at all, as if you try and install cadence, it won't run due to there being no jackdbus available in the ubuntu studio repos. Why would the ubuntu project allow the removal of jackdbus from their repos? I don't get it.
GAH!
I'm now going to try and use a kde neon base, or similar and try and install the kxstudio repositories. Damn.


This:
raboof wrote:A common reason for open source maintainers to burn out is when users act entitled and even call them names in public - like you just did. Please don't, nobody deserves that.

By all means vent your frustration about the "state of things", but don't make it personal.


Besides, do your research before venting. There might be a solution around the corner:
raboof wrote:https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?sear ... n&arch=any suggests it is in the 'jackd2' package, do you have that installed?


And if you find it, share it. Typical of Linux users is to collaborate and be constructive. Or at least, it should be.

In addition to that: I am not too familiar with Debian/Ubuntu world, but I maintain packages for Arch Linux and package incompatibility is a thing: multiple packages that provide the same software are typically in conflict and cannot be installed alongside, unless <list of unlesses that I am not up to type right now>. Before going full tin foil hat and declaim various conspiracy theory about how Ubuntu Studio wants to vendor lock-in its users, just figure out if the Ubuntu Studio software sources are in actual conflict with KXStudio: repo incompatibility is a fairly common occurrence.

Either way, it would strike me as odd to add KXStudio repos on Ubuntu Studio, given that you would mix up two software sources for the same stuff, much of which is already installed by default (hence, conflicts are harder to manage). I would just add KXStudio on regular Ubuntu.
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sysrqer
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Re: Gah....

Postby sysrqer » Tue May 21, 2019 6:03 pm

I use Ubuntu studio controls on neon and jackdbus is running, must be possible to install at least.

When I installed UBS it removed cadence which is annoying but UBS is wanted to use so I accepted it.

I don't really understand what your issue is. Did you encounter issues adding the repo, or trying to install something, or did you get dependency problems?

I think a closed system for music isn't such a bad or unusual idea although I doubt that Ubuntu studio has to be closed in that way.

millerthegorilla
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Re: Gah....

Postby millerthegorilla » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:40 am

I meant that it was not following the open source ethic to incorporate some package or other into a piece of software such that the piece of software becomes exclusive.

I often used Ubuntu Studio, with the kxstudio repos enabled to allow me to use cadence, which worked well, and looked nice etc, as well as promising the opportunity to engage in low latency network audio, which I meant to get involved in at some point.

I recently installed ubuntu studio for the first time in a few years, excepting that time when I discovered recently that cadence was prohibited from being installed due to 'ubuntu-studio-controls'.

It installed well, even detecting the Nvidia optimus/intel set up on my friend's laptop, which is more than xubuntu did. It installed easily, and relatively seamlessly, and I have used it and it works well. I was disappointed by the sudden discovery that I wouldn't be able to use my favourite combination, I guess, which is ubuntu studio with the kxstudio repositories, and their software.

I hope ubuntu studio controls is developed, since when pressing 'apply audio settings' there is no feedback as to what has happened, no indication of dsp load, latency, xruns etc, all of which I can get elsewhere, but I liked cadence for that and its ease of opening tools like Katia and the meters as well.
Again, I can get those elsewhere, but losing software, like cadence, is a shame.
I will still enable the kxstudio repository in order to install the plugins, since there is a massive list of them available on kxstudio, that don't seem to be available on Ubustudio.

As for name calling, all I did was point out that it is in breach of what is the accepted opensource software 'contract' to publish some software that exclusively incorporates some package at the expense of some other project. It limits freedom, not something to be encouraged. However, ubuntu studio seems to work well, including being able to provide audio for high end recording as well as being able to maintain an audio presence for desktop software, like Firefox etc.
What has been done, in making ubuntu studio controls the exclusive option, and preventing cadence from being installed goes against the grain of your statement... 'Typical of Linux users is to collaborate and be constructive'... it is neither collaborative nor is it constructive.

However, I am not a fan of AVL studio, and with KXstudio down, there is only ubuntu studio left as a real contender, at least that I know about, anyway.

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Re: Gah....

Postby raboof » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:06 am

millerthegorilla wrote:As for name calling, all I did was point out that it is in breach of what is the accepted opensource software 'contract' to publish some software that exclusively incorporates some package at the expense of some other project. It limits freedom, not something to be encouraged.


I'm not sure I agree. Software conflicts all the time. Of course it is better when it doesn't, but that might require work, and you can't blame people for not putting in that work.

Now if someone is actively sabotaging other software, of course that is not cool. But I don't see anything indication that that is the case here.

millerthegorilla wrote:What has been done, in making ubuntu studio controls the exclusive option, and preventing cadence from being installed goes against the grain of your statement... 'Typical of Linux users is to collaborate and be constructive'... it is neither collaborative nor is it constructive.


I'm sure they'd welcome a contribution making this possible - it might be technically challenging though.


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