Why is JACK such a POS?

[hebjuzeb]

WTF, JACK is (...): if you even look at it wrong it crashes.

Just installed KX on Ubuntu Studio: the first time it was stopped, though set to startup on login. Started it, changed the settings (just selected inputs/outputs, using an Alesis i04 for the record, and changed the buffer size, nothing fancy) went to restart (I suggest adding a warning at this stage, not everyone knows you have to restart JACK to reset any changes) and . . . nothing. Tried "force restart," nothing. Went to the welcome screen and did a force reset of settings, logged out, repeated the whole procedure . . . nothing.

It says to check the logs, what does that mean? I remember one of the old GUIs just had a button that would lead you to a bunch of code, is this the same thing?

[hebjuzeb]

OMG, we're not allowed to swear here? OK, I got the logs . . . the error message is 10 000 characters or so, much too long to post. Here's the event that snapped my normally calm demeanor ; )

Eventually I got one minute's use out of Reaper, then the inputs disappeared.

Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: port 'reaper:out_2' created
Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: port 'reaper:out_3' created
Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: port 'reaper:out_4' created
Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: port 'reaper:out_5' created
Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: port 'reaper:out_6' created
Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: port 'reaper:out_7' created
Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: port 'reaper:out_8' created
Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: port 'reaper:out_9' created
Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: port 'reaper:out_10' created
Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: port 'reaper:out_11' created
Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: port 'reaper:out_12' created
Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: port 'reaper:out_13' created
Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: port 'reaper:out_14' created
Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: port 'reaper:out_15' created
Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: port 'reaper:out_16' created
Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: Connecting 'system:capture_1' to 'reaper:in_1'
Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: Connecting 'system:capture_2' to 'reaper:in_2'
Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: Connecting 'system:capture_3' to 'reaper:in_3'
Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: Connecting 'system:capture_4' to 'reaper:in_4'
Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: Connecting 'reaper:out_1' to 'system:playback_1'
Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: Connecting 'reaper:out_2' to 'system:playback_2'
Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: Connecting 'reaper:out_3' to 'system:playback_3'
Sun Mar 17 17:36:29 2013: Connecting 'reaper:out_4' to 'system:playback_4'
Sun Mar 17 17:36:35 2013: ERROR: ALSA: prepare error for playback on "hw:iO4,0" (Broken pipe)
Sun Mar 17 17:36:35 2013: ERROR: JackAudioDriver::ProcessAsync: read error, stopping...
Sun Mar 17 17:36:42 2013: Disconnecting 'system:capture_1' from 'reaper:in_1'
Sun Mar 17 17:36:42 2013: Disconnecting 'system:capture_2' from 'reaper:in_2'
Sun Mar 17 17:36:42 2013: Disconnecting 'system:capture_3' from 'reaper:in_3'
Sun Mar 17 17:36:42 2013: Disconnecting 'system:capture_4' from 'reaper:in_4'
Sun Mar 17 17:36:42 2013: Disconnecting 'reaper:out_1' from 'system:playback_1'
Sun Mar 17 17:36:42 2013: Disconnecting 'reaper:out_2' from 'system:playback_2'
Sun Mar 17 17:36:42 2013: Disconnecting 'reaper:out_3' from 'system:playback_3'
Sun Mar 17 17:36:42 2013: Disconnecting 'reaper:out_4' from 'system:playback_4'
Sun Mar 17 17:36:42 2013: ERROR: JackPosixProcessSync::LockedTimedWait error usec = 58040 err = Connection timed out
Sun Mar 17 17:36:42 2013: ERROR: JackEngine::ClientDeactivate wait error ref = 6 name = reaper
Sun Mar 17 17:36:42 2013: ERROR: JackPosixProcessSync::LockedTimedWait error usec = 11608 err = Connection timed out
Sun Mar 17 17:36:42 2013: ERROR: JackEngine::ClientCloseAux wait error ref = 6
Sun Mar 17 17:36:42 2013: Client 'reaper' with PID 7183 is out
Sun Mar 17 17:36:47 2013: ERROR: JackPosixProcessSync::LockedTimedWait error usec = 5000000 err = Connection timed out
Sun Mar 17 17:36:47 2013: ERROR: Driver is not running
Sun Mar 17 17:36:47 2013: ERROR: Cannot create new client
Sun Mar 17 17:37:05 2013: ERROR: JackPosixProcessSync::LockedTimedWait error usec = 5000000 err = Connection timed out
Sun Mar 17 17:37:05 2013: ERROR: Driver is not running
Sun Mar 17 17:37:05 2013: ERROR: Cannot create new client
Sun Mar 17 17:37:21 2013: ERROR: JackPosixProcessSync::LockedTimedWait error usec = 5000000 err = Connection timed out
Sun Mar 17 17:37:21 2013: ERROR: Driver is not running
Sun Mar 17 17:37:21 2013: ERROR: Cannot create new client
Sun Mar 17 17:37:29 2013: ERROR: JackPosixProcessSync::LockedTimedWait error usec = 5000000 err = Connection timed out
Sun Mar 17 17:37:29 2013: ERROR: Driver is not running
Sun Mar 17 17:37:29 2013: ERROR: Cannot create new client
Sun Mar 17 17:38:01 2013: Saving settings to "/home/yngwie/.config/jack/conf.xml" ...
Sun Mar 17 17:39:11 2013: Saving settings to "/home/yngwie/.config/jack/conf.xml" ...
Sun Mar 17 17:40:02 2013: ERROR: JackPosixProcessSync::LockedTimedWait error usec = 5000000 err = Connection timed out
Sun Mar 17 17:40:02 2013: ERROR: Driver is not running
Sun Mar 17 17:40:02 2013: ERROR: Cannot create new client
Sun Mar 17 18:12:22 2013: Disconnecting 'system:capture_1' from 'jack2alsa:playback_1'
Sun Mar 17 18:12:22 2013: Disconnecting 'system:capture_2' from 'jack2alsa:playback_2'
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: ERROR: JackPosixProcessSync::LockedTimedWait error usec = 58040 err = Connection timed out
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: ERROR: JackEngine::ClientDeactivate wait error ref = 4 name = jack2alsa
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: Disconnecting 'alsa2jack:capture_1' from 'system:playback_1'
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: Disconnecting 'alsa2jack:capture_2' from 'system:playback_2'
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: ERROR: JackPosixProcessSync::LockedTimedWait error usec = 58040 err = Connection timed out
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: ERROR: JackEngine::ClientDeactivate wait error ref = 5 name = alsa2jack
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: ERROR: Failed to find port 'jack2alsa:playback_1' to destroy
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: ERROR: Failed to find port 'jack2alsa:playback_2' to destroy
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: ERROR: JackPosixProcessSync::LockedTimedWait error usec = 58040 err = Connection timed out
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: ERROR: JackEngine::ClientDeactivate wait error ref = 4 name = jack2alsa
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: ERROR: JackServer::ClientKill ref = 4 cannot be removed from the graph !!
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: ERROR: JackPosixProcessSync::LockedTimedWait error usec = 11608 err = Connection timed out
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: ERROR: JackEngine::ClientCloseAux wait error ref = 4
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: Client 'jack2alsa' with PID 7175 is out
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: ERROR: Cannot write socket fd = 17 err = Broken pipe
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: ERROR: CheckRes error
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: ERROR: Could not write notification
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: ERROR: NotifyClient fails name = jack2alsa notification = 1 val1 = 0 val2 = 0
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: ERROR: Failed to find port 'alsa2jack:capture_1' to destroy
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: ERROR: Failed to find port 'alsa2jack:capture_2' to destroy
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: ERROR: JackPosixProcessSync::LockedTimedWait error usec = 58040 err = Connection timed out
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: ERROR: JackEngine::ClientDeactivate wait error ref = 5 name = alsa2jack
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: ERROR: JackServer::ClientKill ref = 5 cannot be removed from the graph !!
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: ERROR: JackPosixProcessSync::LockedTimedWait error usec = 11608 err = Connection timed out
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: ERROR: JackEngine::ClientCloseAux wait error ref = 5
Sun Mar 17 18:12:23 2013: Client 'alsa2jack' with PID 7174 is out
Sun Mar 17 18:12:24 2013: ERROR: JackPosixProcessSync::LockedTimedWait error usec = 58040 err = Connection timed out
Sun Mar 17 18:12:24 2013: ERROR: JackEngine::ClientDeactivate wait error ref = 3 name = cadence-aloop-daemon
Sun Mar 17 18:12:24 2013: ERROR: JackPosixProcessSync::LockedTimedWait error usec = 11608 err = Connection timed out
Sun Mar 17 18:12:24 2013: ERROR: JackEngine::ClientCloseAux wait error ref = 3
Sun Mar 17 18:12:24 2013: Client 'cadence-aloop-daemon' with PID 7170 is out

Argh.

[ToddMWorth]

It seems to me, that most of your problems have indicated an issue not with JACK but with JACK's interaction with ALSA. In lieu of a better diagram (I'll do that later when I'm writing docs) here's a rough sketch:

Code: Select all

Audio App
    |
    |          Another Audio App
    |                  |
    |                  |
     ------JACK (1)----
            |
            | (2)
            |
Kernel --- ALSA
            |
            |
        Soundcard

Your issues seem not to be where I put (1), but where I put (2).
I wonder if your soundcard is really working OK.

How is the soundcard physically connected to your PC?
If your stop JACK, and play audio from ONE app, through ALSA, does it work OK?
If you start Jack and don't do anything, does it appear to run OK when it's just idle?

PS All of these tests should be done after removing any changes you've made from the default installation. It should be just like out of the box. You may need to reset your jack settings, remove any custom .asoundrc files, etc.

PPS If you could meet me on IRC sometime, that's a much better way to troubleshoot Just let me know what time works for you.

[hebjuzeb]

Hey Todd,

Thanks for the reply. Near as I can recall, most likely had JACK Bridge going. so YouTube or something may be the culprit. I should make a handle that has my setup listed: my machine's average, i3 dual-core 2.4GHz, 4GB RAM, using an Alesis i04 via USB 2.

In Windows I use a cheap Steinberg device that allows multiple audio sources by default.

I should say, I'm aware that JACK is a sophisticated piece of software, but it suffers from the same problem that troubles KXStudio: there seems to be only one person alive who knows how it works. Perhaps you do, in which case there are at least 2. Sorry, I'm rambling; your explanation seems pretty plausible, I'll exclude some of the variables and get back to you (tomorrow!)

Cheers,
h.

[ToddMWorth]

Hey Todd,

Thanks for the reply. Near as I can recall, most likely had JACK Bridge going. so YouTube or something may be the culprit. I should make a handle that has my setup listed: my machine's average, i3 dual-core 2.4GHz, 4GB RAM, using an Alesis i04 via USB 2.

In Windows I use a cheap Steinberg device that allows multiple audio sources by default.

I should say, I'm aware that JACK is a sophisticated piece of software, but it suffers from the same problem that troubles KXStudio: there seems to be only one person alive who knows how it works. Perhaps you do, in which case there are at least 2. Sorry, I'm rambling; your explanation seems pretty plausible, I'll exclude some of the variables and get back to you (tomorrow!)

Cheers,
h.

Yeh I definitely would avoid using youtube for testing... Even on windows, that flash player is a buggy POS!

I wonder if your IO4 is connected via a hub, or directly to your PC? I'd avoid a hub (even on windows that's a bad idea)

That steinberg device actually has a special driver that allows multi-client connections. I remember when that API first came out, it was like "WOW! Two apps playing sound at once! Awesome!"... and then the drama came - not all soundcards' drivers allowed it.

Did you know though, that ALSA will allow any soundcard to accept multiple clients to connect? Anyway, we don't need that feature, because we allow one app (JACK) to connect to the soundcard, and we let jack handle the multi-client stuff. Why? While the windows multi-client driver or the ALSA plug API allow two or more apps to connect to one soundcard, JACK would additionally sample-accurately sync them, and perform automatic latency compensation

[ldevose2]

Here is why I am here. I was using Ubuntu Studio 12.04. I just could not get past JACK crashing.

I am awaiting the KXStudio download now, but here is my configuration:

Sun Ultra 40 M2 w/2 Opteron CPUs
1TB HDD
2 GB RAM
TASCAM DAT (yes you read correctly)
Alesis Multimix 8 Firewire

So after pressing the "On" button and inserting the DVD, I should... ?

[ToddMWorth]

Here is why I am here. I was using Ubuntu Studio 12.04. I just could not get past JACK crashing.

I am awaiting the KXStudio download now, but here is my configuration:

Sun Ultra 40 M2 w/2 Opteron CPUs
1TB HDD
2 GB RAM
TASCAM DAT (yes you read correctly)
Alesis Multimix 8 Firewire

So after pressing the "On" button and inserting the DVD, I should... ?

There's a graphical installer, very much like you'd see on any modern operating system installer. Just follow the instructions, answer the questions, and see how you go. If you get stuck, we'll be here or on IRC to help you.

[hebjuzeb]

This is borderline trolling. Please give it a rest.

I'm not trolling, borderline or otherwise. In the forum world, that's a pretty strong accusation: you're basically saying I'm just here to cause problems. IMO, JACK is over-designed and under-documented, simple as that, and my advice to anyone interested in using Linux for audio production, so far, is "Don't."

If you can show me that JACK is a practical solution for the average user, do it, and I'll do my level-best to help others.

Regards,
h.

[ldevose2]

There's a graphical installer, very much like you'd see on any modern operating system installer. Just follow the instructions, answer the questions, and see how you go. If you get stuck, we'll be here or on IRC to help you.

I'm stuck!

Here is what happens:

1. BIOS
2. System Check
3. Language Splash
-IF I press ENTER
Install Menu
I select INSTALL KXSTUDIO
Blank Screen >flashing cursor<
FREEZE
Repeat 1-3
-IF I press ENTER
Install Menu
I press F6
I add noapic and nolapic to the boot options line
I press ENTER
I get a full screen of operations being performed.
Blank Screen >flashing cursor<
FREEZE
Repeat 1-3
-IF I press ESC
I get the dialogue box (Are you sure?)
I click YES.
I get a prompt: "boot:"
I enter "help"
I get something about "No screen image"
I press ENTER twice
Any choice beyond this produces one of the above results.

Help me - please.

[Alwaysanewb]

First off I would edit that post its like 5 miles of nothing in the middle lol. Must of been an accident or something.

I had the same problem with ubuntu studio. Jack has a bug in it which makes it not work which in essence makes ubuntu studio useless because linux audio is based on jack. It sucks I know but not a problem thanks to kxstudio.

No one likes when i say thing but the easiest way to get a stable kxstudio system working is but installing plain ubuntu 12.04. It pretty much configures everything for you just check additional drivers and make sure your useing the recommended ones.

After that just install the kxstudio repos via the terminal. Falktx has documentation on his site how to do this step by step and it's pretty self explainitory if you know linux at all.

[ldevose2]

First off I would edit that post its like 5 miles of nothing in the middle lol. Must of been an accident or something.

Done. There was extra text at the end. Thanks. I think that ranked somewhere around TYPING IN ALL CAPS ON THE NUISANCE SCALE. SORRY sorry about that.

I had the same problem with ubuntu studio. Jack has a bug in it which makes it not work which in essence makes ubuntu studio useless because linux audio is based on jack. It sucks I know but not a problem thanks to kxstudio.

So if the folks at Canonical are aware of this, why are they not - oh nevermind.

No one likes when i say thing but the easiest way to get a stable kxstudio system working is but installing plain ubuntu 12.04. It pretty much configures everything for you just check additional drivers and make sure your useing the recommended ones.

I don't know what you may be saying to others, but this is a winner, and it is even affirmed by falkTX. So far you are one up with me. Thank you!

After that just install the kxstudio repos via the terminal. Falktx has documentation on his site how to do this step by step and it's pretty self explainitory if you know linux at all.

For me, this is what makes Linux so - almost magical. Being able to go into the terminal and make changes or even completely swap out entire packages in exchange for something that does not work or is broken. I could not do that in my days of DOS manipulation.

THANKS!!!

[ldevose2]

Yes, if KXStudio DVD doesn't work for you - no problem.
Try the UbuntuStudio 12.04 install, or even Lubuntu, Xubuntu, whatever you like, then follow the upgrade tutorial:
http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/Documen ... tu:Upgrade

When I ran the DVD it made reference to Ubuntu 10 as the version. Could this be the source of my difficulty?

I have a 12 disk around from the prior install. I will fish that out, run it, then go to the link you provided and "sudo apt-get" KXStudio.

Thank you!

Also, as one other member posted, it is great to be able to directly interact with the developer. I am still waiting for Mr. Gates to respond to my post on the MSW forum regarding modem drivers in Win95. o_O

[Alwaysanewb]

If your trying to install ubuntustudio 10.04 or 10.10 things probably wont work out for you and even it 12.04 jack is still bugged. Is there a certain reason you want the ubuntustudio repositoys? I wouldn't even install ubuntustudio unless you have a specific reason you would like to. Just install ubuntu 12.04 make sure you update the system. Then install the kxstudio repos or if you do want the ubuntustudios repos you can download the 12.04 dvd and follow the same process. Alternativly you could just install ubuntu 12.04 install the ubuntustudio repos on that. Then install The Kxstudio repos.

A couple notes

The reason I recomend using plain ubuntu is it has the easiest most strait forward graphical installer there is and tends to have about zero issues installing.

kxstudio gives you the option of using kde which i don't use and have really never tryed but may work great for you. Ubuntus default is ubuntu3d which is very resouce heavy and can really screw things up when recording and cause bad latency ect. I recommend using unity2d which is a lot more light wieght and I cant really tell a difference. I have tryed others but they all have issues and if you willing to deal with that that is fine but for me unity 2d seems to work best.

[hebjuzeb]

Jack has a bug in it which makes it not work which in essence makes ubuntu studio useless because linux audio is based on jack. It sucks I know but not a problem thanks to kxstudio.

OK, this is why I started the thread. But if JACK has a bug, why doesn't it affect regular Ubuntu? How do you manage to use Linux for audio production at all? Just now I'm fiddling with Ubuntu Studio + KX and it's the same old story, can't get anywhere with it.

I've had trouble learning other programs in my time, but could always figure it out eventually. With JACK, I can't move an inch because it's so random, the regular troubleshooting process doesn't seem to apply. I'll get Reaper showing inputs, and 2 seconds later they're gone. Then JACK will turn itself off. Then reset itself to default. Then my hardware dissapears, and the input box is greyed out so I can't change it. At one point I finally got a level in Reaper, turned on monitoring, and BAM!, static at maximum volume. Nothing I do seems to have any predictable effect.

Alwaysanewb, how stable is your system? Is it worth the effort? I guess in some ways I should take my own advice and stick to Windows, but now I'm riled up . . . can't rest 'till I figure this out, lol.

[Alwaysanewb]

Jack has a bug in it which makes it not work which in essence makes ubuntu studio useless because linux audio is based on jack. It sucks I know but not a problem thanks to kxstudio.

OK, this is why I started the thread. But if JACK has a bug, why doesn't it affect regular Ubuntu? How do you manage to use Linux for audio production at all? Just now I'm fiddling with Ubuntu Studio + KX and it's the same old story, can't get anywhere with it.

I've had trouble learning other programs in my time, but could always figure it out eventually. With JACK, I can't move an inch because it's so random, the regular troubleshooting process doesn't seem to apply. I'll get Reaper showing inputs, and 2 seconds later they're gone. Then JACK will turn itself off. Then reset itself to default. Then my hardware dissapears, and the input box is greyed out so I can't change it. At one point I finally got a level in Reaper, turned on monitoring, and BAM!, static at maximum volume. Nothing I do seems to have any predictable effect.

Alwaysanewb, how stable is your system? Is it worth the effort? I guess in some ways I should take my own advice and stick to Windows, but now I'm riled up . . . can't rest 'till I figure this out, lol.

Well the thing abuot linux is there are different repos and different distros. If you install the kxstudio repos over ubuntu your installing the repos which falktx created he worked out all the bugs and created a few programs which pretty much has taken linux audio to the point where a barbarian like me can use it.

If you have the kxstudio repos installed it should work. I would do a fresh install of ubuntu and install kxstudio on that like I said. Sometimes if your new to linux you do something minor your don't even remember doing and if you new more you could work it out but it's easier to do a fresh install.

Another thing as much as I like reaper and there philosphy I would use ardour. That way your not messing with wine and wine asio and all that. A lot of people get it to work just fine but if your not use to linux and something goes wrong It can be like being lost in the desert. Sure you mioght make it out but the chances arent very good. Ardour is stable. It works and sounds great, it is easy to use and is everybit as good of a daw as anything else out on the market.

As far as how stable is my system. I run a amd phemon 965 and 4 gigs of ram because that's all I can afford and it's bullet proof and lightning fast. When I ran windows I basicaly would just make the computer explode because windows you can't really bend to your will. I tryed recording on windows on my old laptop and just using linux for everying else. I basically did everything i could to try and get it to run stable and it just wouldnt do it. Installed kxstudio over my ubunt partion on the same comp and never had a problem with it since. Although I did build a desktop for recording after that.

Is it worth it? For me yeah. When linux is working right there is not a OS windows or mac that can even come close to it. There is a lot of little tricks you need to learn along the way but it's pretty easy to get a stable system up and running these days. You also have to understand I have been using linux for 5 or 6 years give or take and after I learned where all the resources are it's been like having my own personal tech support. If I had a job and wasn't broke I would find away to contribute more. Untill then I just try and find a way to let people know about it and how good it actually can be. mention it in forums or where ever. I believe linux is eventually going to catch on. Untill then we all have to do out best to support the developers who support us.