KX mini manual

Unofficial support for the KXStudio Linux distribution and applications.
More info at http://kxstudio.linuxaudio.org/

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wolftune
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Re: KX mini manual

Postby wolftune » Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:26 pm

danboid wrote:Wolftune:

OK. I think the best thing to do then is to briefly mention in the manual that if the user has problems with the full KX DVD iso they also have the option of using the PPAs with various other Ubuntu based distros. Of course, Ubuntu has its own install docs already and there are hundreds of Ubuntu-based distros too but I'll likely just mention Mint and Ubuntustudio as some of the alternate Ubuntu spin-offs they could try alongside the KX netboot iso and vanilla (Gnome/X/K/*) Ubuntu as a base from which to add the PPAs with 12.04 based versions being recommended above the later ones. OP updated.


I disagree with the focus of just saying "if you have problems." KXStudio, as falktx envisions it, really does support these other options. I would neither endorse nor avoid this in the wording. The simple thing is to say essentially, "this documentation focuses on those doing a fresh installation from the KXStudio ISO, but those who prefer to use an initial or preexisting installation of an Ubuntu-based distro such as Ubuntu, Ubuntu Studio, Linux Mint, etc. can use these PPAs by following these instructions:"

What I'm saying is, I don't think we should tell those who want to do the ISO that they should try this, that's not the purpose. The purpose is to acknowledge that it is an option. Some people may already have a system installed, for example. We acknowledge that this exists, and that's enough so that people know it is an option if they have trouble. It's just a side acknowledgement. It's an acceptance that just because we're aiming at someone installing a fresh ISO, this does not mean we are sure that is the only reader, so we're acknowledging the existence of other readers but telling them that they aren't the focus.
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Re: KX mini manual

Postby wolftune » Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:29 pm

Thad E Ginathom wrote:It isn't the PPAs which are scary, it is apt-get and other application installation tools, with their many, many options. With great power comes a little scariness!

Y PPA Manager is a useful tool


Maybe you missed my point? Muon is a whole system of very user-friendly tools, including one that manages PPAs, and while I don't know if it is exactly like Y, Muon is really nice and when the update is available it will be included in KXStudio. So we already have the issue solved, it's just that Muon is at release-candidate stage and not fully ready today. It should be ready very soon.
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danboid
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Re: KX mini manual

Postby danboid » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:12 pm

I have written the introductory chapter of the manual and uploaded it to the wiki:

http://www.wiki.linuxmusicians.com/doku ... dio_manual

Whilst I was at it I also updated

http://www.wiki.linuxmusicians.com/doku ... nd_howto_s

Which now links to the WIP KXStudio manual. I tidied that page up a bit, added a link to Cadence, the JACK FAQ and the Ardour 3 and qtractor manuals.
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

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Re: KX mini manual

Postby wolftune » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:44 pm

danboid wrote:I have written the introductory chapter of the manual and uploaded it to the wiki:

http://www.wiki.linuxmusicians.com/doku ... dio_manual

Whilst I was at it I also updated

http://www.wiki.linuxmusicians.com/doku ... nd_howto_s

Which now links to the WIP KXStudio manual. I tidied that page up a bit, added a link to Cadence, the JACK FAQ and the Ardour 3 and qtractor manuals.


I made a bunch of edits to your initial draft. Also, I think this sort of general thing makes sense, but I urge you to wait on the specific details until the KXStudio 12.04.2 release. It would be wonderful to have this coordinate with that. So let's get the general content worked out but then focus on having the full complete documentation be centered around 12.04.2.
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danboid
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Re: KX mini manual

Postby danboid » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:22 pm

Thanks Wolftune!

There was just the one small spelling mistake that needed to be cleaned up but otherwise your changes look good to me.

You've got a good point wrt not trying to do too much before time as many of the other chapters would benefit from a few minimal screenshots and a few things are still in flux so certain stuff would likely need to be re-done before long.
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

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Re: KX mini manual

Postby Alwaysanewb » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:17 pm

That looks awesome. I would acctually just write it anyway you want. There are a number of differn't onpions on how things can or should be done. If anyone likes to do things differenty they can make a youtube video demoing how they do things or write there own faq and post it somewhere. It's not that I don't think there shoud be a concensous about the faq on linux wiki. If people though you left something out they can add it later.

Also the more faqs/tutorals/videos there are out there explaining KXstudio the easier it is for people to understand it and learn how to use it. A lot of times it takes me listining and seeing something 10 different ways how to do something before I understand something can figure out how to do it my own way. I'm pretty sure not positive it's not because I am an idiot but me like a lot of people analize each facet or step of doing something needing to understand each part. Also like a lot of people sometimes I just don't understand why someone would do something one way when I would do it a completely different way. It's not that the other person is wrong people see things different.

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Re: KX mini manual

Postby wolftune » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:28 pm

Alwaysanewb wrote:That looks awesome. I would acctually just write it anyway you want. There are a number of differn't onpions on how things can or should be done. If anyone likes to do things differenty they can make a youtube video demoing how they do things or write there own faq and post it somewhere. It's not that I don't think there shoud be a concensous about the faq on linux wiki. If people though you left something out they can add it later.


Exactly. Write it anyway you want because it is a Wiki! What you read just now is already my edits of what Dan started with (which he welcomed and is part of the creative process). Just some feedback, Alwaysanewb: your post comes across to me as being defensive about criticism. In other words, it sounds like an effort to tell people to totally ignore critics even when the critics are being constructive, offering helpful suggestions, and helping to push energy to the places where it is best utilized. I hope that wasn't your intention.

I do agree completely with your points that getting the same information from different sources with different wordings is good. It's called "statistical learning." We master things be approaching them from many angles and eventually figuring out what matters, which isn't possible if we only read the same thing over and over.

It's just that by emphasizing the value of different perspectives, it's too easy to read into your comments as though you felt some critics were rejecting that and were trying to insist that everything be their way. And that isn't the case. Just as it is useful to get different perspectives, it's also very useful to collaborate and to welcome constructive criticism.

Just wanted to clarify. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that we're all on the same page overall and happy that we're all contributing to this important project! :D
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Re: KX mini manual

Postby danboid » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:09 pm

Hi Wolftune!

I re-read the introduction and I decided to remove the sentence you added after the first, which read:

"The primary KXStudio collection is entirely free and open source, but a separate collection of non-free supplementary tools is also available."

In the Introduction, at least, and hopefully throughout the entire manual I am striving to minimise the unecessary and potentially confusing stuff for newcomers. Most newcomers care not for software licensing and politics. Maybe they should, but most don't and nor do I in this scenario - KISS applies throughout here.

Both REAPER and Adobe Flash are included on the KX ISO by default hence it cannot claim to be pure of non-free software even if the majority of it is. Remember, this doc is only covering installation and use of the full iso but isn't REAPER packaged in the KX repo anyway? I didn't think the KX repo was divided into free and non-free? Whether it is or it isn't, we won't bother mentioning such fine details in the introduction. Stuff like that may get a mention in the package management chapter but is too much detail in the first paragraph.

KXStudio is not a distro for FSF and GNU die-hards, there are numerous other distros for people who detest all non-free software like gNewsense and Trisquel. However, I think its only right we refer to it as GNU/Linux to give RMS a bit of a break! ;)
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

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Re: KX mini manual

Postby wolftune » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:10 am

Thanks for the thoughts, Dan. Let me be clear where I'm coming from:

A. you had something mentioning free vs non-free so I was trying to clarify, it wasn't a totally new sentence.

B. We need to use GNU/Linux now both to credit GNU but more importantly, this system is largely GNU, whereas Android has the Linux kernel. It is absurd to say that we are running "Linux" when almost nothing we're doing is Android. We can't say, "Android uses Linux kernel but isn't Linux" that's just silly. We need, for the sake of newbies, to clarify that this system is GNU/Linux. A reasonable and clear statement is, "there's a Linux kernel that runs the fundamental operations, but there are two popular systems that run on top of that, one is Android, and the other is GNU." Now, we should keep it just "Linux" when we're talking about the kernel, of course.

C. I totally disagree that issues of Freedom should be minimized. A large portion, perhaps the majority, of people who want to switch to GNU/Linux instead of Mac or Windows would be doing so because they care about these issues. I'm one of those myself. And even if they don't care, they need to understand it. It permeates the issues. And when they have questions about why things work or don't work certain ways, often the political freedom issues are at the core. Now, I understand that KXStudio isn't an FSF-level distro, but neither even is Debian. I don't want to hit newbies over the head with dogmatic FSF-type stuff. But I do think it is important that it simply be clear so everyone is informed when they are using FLOSS or not. And newbies will want to know that KXStudio includes non-free software but that it is all marked and segregated if they look at the repository listings. I think it would be good to say something to the effect of:

The core of the system is Free Software but KXStudio includes select non-free software as well. The non-free software is clearly marked and you can choose whether or not to use it. See [later manual section about PPA and repository management]


Now, for your reference, the KXStudio stuff is all very clearly segregated. In other words, falkTX is very responsible and does a great job of making it very clear what is what. To have a totally free KXStudio, you can simply remove the items from the separate non-free repository. It's that easy. And anyone can trust that all the rest of the software is Free. The only thing where FSF would then object at all is the use of the regular Linux kernel instead of Linux-libre.

So think of it this way: KXStudio is already so easy to stick to Free that it actually could be used by people leaning toward FSF level of politics. It's a shame to not have at least a short mention of this for beginners. Many beginners may care about this. And KXStudio is not haphazard. Again, falkTX does a great job of keeping non-free stuff separated and marked. It's worth just mentioning that and giving him credit for that part of his great work.
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Re: KX mini manual

Postby hebjuzeb » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:35 am

Hey Dan,
Nice job, this is looking really good. Clear, concise, and correctly-spelled documentation is too rare in the Linux world (and elsewhere!) Makes a great first impression for the whole KXStudio project, I hope you'll keep writing after the mini-manual's done.
Acer Aspire 5742, Intel Core i3 370M @ 2.40GHz, 4.00 GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 532MHz, Intel(R) HD Graphics, Alesis iO4 audio device.

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Re: KX mini manual

Postby danboid » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:38 am

Wolftune:

Free vs non-free is not something I want to discuss at all in the introduction, personally. If we get into that, we'd need to go into the 4 types of free etc. If we get into that, we straight away have to admit that KX is not, out of the box, a 'Free' distro then we look a bit silly trying to mount the moral high ground, even if F does package everything in a well-organised way to help spot non-free.

As for GNU/LInux, I agreed that I'm happy for that to remain in there to give a nod to the FSF etc.

People have wasted way too much time debating free vs non-free, GPL vs BSD ad infinitum. I really don't want any of this philosophising creeping into the Introduction unless maybe F thinks its a good idea.

Chances are that anyone who reads the doc knows about GNU and the FSF already and if they don't then they should wonder what GNU stands for when referring to Linux and go look it up. Thats our job done here as far as I'm concerned. I want a brief, to the point manual for KXStudio and I have no plans to do any license evangelism - its out of its scope.
Last edited by danboid on Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

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Re: KX mini manual

Postby Alwaysanewb » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:39 am

Exactly. Write it anyway you want because it is a Wiki! What you read just now is already my edits of what Dan started with (which he welcomed and is part of the creative process). Just some feedback, Alwaysanewb: your post comes across to me as being defensive about criticism. In other words, it sounds like an effort to tell people to totally ignore critics even when the critics are being constructive, offering helpful suggestions, and helping to push energy to the places where it is best utilized. I hope that wasn't your intention.



Basicaly we all are always having a conversation on here about how things should be done or how we do things. It seems like the more we talk, we never really contribute because everyone has an opinion on how things should be done. Falktx has asked, saying if anyone wants to help with documentation or KXstudio needs a spokes person it would be appreciated many times. No one ever does anything on here but tell other people how things should be done. Open conversation and critisism is a great thing.and can be very helpful, but to tell the truth not one of us myself included has stepped forward and done this. A thing that probably should of been done a year or more ago. Finally danboid took the initiative and just went ahead and did it and all the critisism is just slowing him down.

So my intention was to thank Danboid and tell him what a good job he was doing and saying to him, We all have our own ways of doing things and everyone will have an opinion which is as good thing but I think all of the opinions are just slowing the proccess down. If he does it the way he wants to do it. It will get done, it will be helpful to people, and if anyone disagrees they are more than welcome to add to the wiki or make there own tutorial. I think the more tutorials/faqs/walkthroughs on the net about kxstudio the more it will gain popularity as well as the more resources they will have at there disposal to help them on there way and that's never a bad thing.

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Re: KX mini manual

Postby danboid » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:45 am

Thanks for your kind words Heb and Alwaysanewb!

You're very right in that I cannot produce a document that could please everyone or tell them everythig they could need to know about KXStudio - we all know thats not really possible.

I appreciate what Wolftune has contributed so far and minor corrections and additions are great in context but there's a reason why I have stated time and again this is only intended to be a MINI, brief manual for beginners.

I'm not writing to please RMS or the FSF or anyone in particular except falkTX and maybe some others will appreciate and find it useful.
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

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Re: KX mini manual

Postby wolftune » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:59 am

Alwaysanewb wrote:It seems like the more we talk, we never really contribute because everyone has an opinion on how things should be done. Falktx has asked, saying if anyone wants to help with documentation or KXstudio needs a spokes person it would be appreciated many times. No one ever does anything on here but tell other people how things should be done. Open conversation and critisism is a great thing.and can be very helpful, but to tell the truth not one of us myself included has stepped forward and done this.


Well, you made your comments to this effect right after I did a thorough editing of Dan's great start. The discussion about focus led to his actions, and I contributed. And I already posted a whole large initial collection of notes in preparation for documentation. It's thorough and lengthy, just not fully fleshed out.

I don't want to take any offense and the best I can take from your points is that there is indeed more ways for me to contribute. However, I've done a lot of testing, clarified things, made tons of notes, and my entire focus has been on wanting to get the issues addressed before focusing on documentation. I'm mostly talking to falkTX about how to incorporate the best settings into 12.04.2 so that less documentation is even needed.

And, not to take anything away from Dan, but everyone is coming in and saying how well-written and clear his writing is; but, while it was good, what you're reading is something where I edited almost every sentence to take a great start and polish it further. The great writing you're seeing is mine as much as Dan's, although he deserves the credit for the initial version. I don't care actually about getting credit, but I don't like being told that I'm not contributing and that I should stop discussing things. The discussion is part of the process. And if you are concerned about complainers who sit around and do nothing, then just don't be one yourself. That said, please continue to criticize me if you think I'm truly wasting time. I'm not perfect, and I appreciate criticism.
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Re: KX mini manual

Postby wolftune » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:07 am

danboid wrote:I'm not writing to please RMS or the FSF or anyone in particular except falkTX and maybe some others will appreciate and find it useful.


Well, I think you've made the right choice making it a Wiki and I'm inspired to do more work on that linuxmusicians wiki along with this. And as with any collaborative project, we need to work out the best compromises, and that's what will make it the best anyway. I'm not talking about meeting the extreme requirements of RMS. I'm talking about the fact that falkTX himself on the KXStudio site makes it clear the distinction between the regular PPAs and the separate non-free repository. This mention should not take much space, nor should it be right at the beginning. However, it makes sense to mention this in the documentation with a link maybe. We should certainly use links whenever possible to keep the manual itself brief.

While this isn't for RMS, we should not be downplaying those who care about Free Software. Musicians who care will be drawn to KXStudio and I want them to be as welcome as anyone. All it takes is a tiny acknowledgement that it is easy to focus on the Free Software and that KXStudio is primarily Free Software. This should maybe be a link to a separate wiki page that explains this in more detail.
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