KX mini manual

Unofficial support for the KXStudio Linux distribution and applications.
More info at http://kxstudio.linuxaudio.org/

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wolftune
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Re: KX mini manual

Post by wolftune »

ToddMWorth wrote:That's why I thought I better warn you about my machines :)
Edit: Or, more to the point, the fact that kmix is open to failures that might screw up a first-time setup.
Well, let's be a little more specific. A lot of devices were not correctly recognized by ALSA prior to kernel 3.5 or 3.6. With the newer kernel, it may be that all your concerns are outdated.
Anyway, I'm not saying that kmix is never confusing, but I think the same confusions happen in alsamixer. If ALSA isn't recognizing everything just right it will be weird either way. And so I don't want to see FUD about the setup if the latest version has fixed the issues. But of course if we can confirm that there is a problem, it should be addressed whether technically or in the docs
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ToddMWorth
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Re: KX mini manual

Post by ToddMWorth »

ToddMWorth wrote:That's why I thought I better warn you about my machines :)
Edit: Or, more to the point, the fact that kmix is open to failures that might screw up a first-time setup.
Well, let's be a little more specific. A lot of devices were not correctly recognized by ALSA prior to kernel 3.5 or 3.6. With the newer kernel, it may be that all your concerns are outdated.
I think you've misunderstood, I'm not talking about devices having issues with alsa, I'm talking about kmix having issues with alsa - as in, alsamixer works, kmix doesn't.
Anyway, I'm not saying that kmix is never confusing, but I think the same confusions happen in alsamixer.
I think more misunderstanding? I'm not talking about confusion, I'm talking about bugs, as in, I click the 'Mute' button, and something else happens that's not 'Mute', and the only fix is to 'alsactl init'.
If ALSA isn't recognizing everything just right it will be weird either way.
Definitely.
And so I don't want to see FUD about the setup if the latest version has fixed the issues.
[/quote]

I don't bring FUD, just solid troubleshooting methodology. This isn't about alsamixer or kmix or gnome mixers or whatever. It's about trying not to add more 'moving parts' to the machine, until it's known to work, otherwise one just creates more room for error.

Why are you so anti-alsamixer anyway?

wolftune
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Re: KX mini manual

Post by wolftune »

I'm not anti-alsamixer. alsamixer is fine.

What I'm saying is simple: in the past, I had trouble with kmix not fully aligning with alsamixer. Recently, those issues seem to have gone away. I wonder if your concerns are obsolete. That's all. I wonder if you're judging kmix by past experiences that weren't with the current way that falkTX patches kmix.

anyway, I'm fine with a mention of alsamixer to make sure people are aware of it as an option if they need to troubleshoot. I think kmix is more user friendly if it's working, and I'm not convinced that the current version of KXStudio still has problems with kmix.
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ToddMWorth
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Re: KX mini manual

Post by ToddMWorth »

wolftune wrote:I'm not anti-alsamixer. alsamixer is fine.

What I'm saying is simple: in the past, I had trouble with kmix not fully aligning with alsamixer. Recently, those issues seem to have gone away. I wonder if your concerns are obsolete. That's all. I wonder if you're judging kmix by past experiences that weren't with the current way that falkTX patches kmix.

anyway, I'm fine with a mention of alsamixer to make sure people are aware of it as an option if they need to troubleshoot. I think kmix is more user friendly if it's working, and I'm not convinced that the current version of KXStudio still has problems with kmix.
But like I said, this is not about kmix....I've seen the same thing with various mixer GUIs going on for like a decade. It's just the extra layer of software introducing another layer of possibility for error. Not kmix.

but yeh at least if people know it's there, they can do an alsa reset and try it, if something goes askew. Perhaps if those are *both* documented as testing/troubleshooting methods?

danboid
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Re: KX mini manual

Post by danboid »

I updated the Install chapter today with a new section called 'Multi-booting on BIOS-based machines'

http://www.wiki.linuxmusicians.com/doku ... g_kxstudio

It could've just as well been called 'Fixing common GRUB issues for Linux noobs'. SuperGrubDisk and grubcustomizer get mentioned now as top GRUB prob fixing tools.
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

danboid
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Re: KX mini manual

Post by danboid »

All sounds good to me Mr F!

I've got a few days off now so I'm planning to get some more docs done before Wednesday.
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

wolftune
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Re: KX mini manual

Post by wolftune »

did some edits again.
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danboid
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Re: KX mini manual

Post by danboid »

You've totally trashed the flow AND meaning in your last bout of edits wolftune. I'll have to fix it later.

Please, in future don't edit anything I write that if you don't understand it. You've done this a few times now.
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

wolftune
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Re: KX mini manual

Post by wolftune »

I did not trash your flow. You told everyone to make a SBG2 disc in advance. That's a bunch of extra hassle. I said, "if you don't have access to another computer, you may want to take this precaution" which is much more clear. I don't want to make everyone do extra precautions if they don't need to. They could make the disc later if needed if they have another computer. That's helpful, not trashing. We want things to be as simple as possible and keep troubleshooting as troubleshooting, not make everyone do it even if there's no problems.

You may not like the new section I added about partitioning, but it is separated and doesn't get in the way.

Please be more specific in your feedback. I don't know what you believe it is that I don't understand.

At any rate, I figured out how to better keep the original flow and adjust things to be more clear, so I improved the edit. In this collaborative process, please be gracious. I welcome your edits and your work as well. Keep in mind that I was already writing my own manual but decided to wait for more 12.04.2 details and then to work to create the best collaboration instead of having a bunch of separate duplicated ideas.
Last edited by wolftune on Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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danboid
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Re: KX mini manual

Post by danboid »

Its important to note that sometimes KX/Ubuntu can install grub OK but it misses off Windows in its menu whereas sometimes nothing boots at all if the user has chosen to manually configure but made a mistake with partitions or grub config.

I think its very common for the Ubuntu GRUB installer not to find Windows or other Linux installs so don't go adding any more "but it normally works fine" apologetic fluff when I edit it again - please. I want no BS, honest, to-the-point docs.

I'm having second thoughts about writing my docs as a wiki now. Many of your edits have been good wolftune but I'm sick or arguing with you over what should and should not be included, specific wording etc when it was originally my personal project to help KXStudio. This is no fun now.
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

wolftune
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Re: KX mini manual

Post by wolftune »

danboid wrote:Its important to note that sometimes KX/Ubuntu can install grub OK but it misses off Windows in its menu whereas sometimes nothing boots at all if the user has chosen to manually configure but made a mistake with partitions or grub config.
I think that is fine, I didn't delete it, and I clarified my wording now with additional edits.
I think its very common for the Ubuntu GRUB installer not to find Windows or other Linux installs so don't go adding any more "but it normally works fine" apologetic fluff when I edit it again - please. I want no BS, honest, to-the-point docs.
I have installed KXStudio on about 6 different machines and have NEVER had this trouble. I agree completely with your basic goals. Apologetic fluff is not the point. The honest to-the-point idea is: if you have another working computer, you can wait to take this step and maybe it won't be needed.
I'm having second thoughts about writing my docs as a wiki now. Many of your edits have been good wolftune but I'm sick or arguing with you over what should and should not be included, specific wording etc when it was originally my personal project to help KXStudio. This is no fun now.
Hey, pause a second. This is why the community keeps having trouble. Here we have people with the same goal working together and you are poisoning the friendly welcoming feel here. If you think dealing with collaboration is no fun, then you aren't doing the community any favors. I have no personal qualms with you. You've written some good stuff. Sometimes it is wordy and unclear. None of us can do as well on our own as with collaboration. None of my edits are meant to be a final judgment on your work. The result we came up with for the FLOSS issue, for example, is a good result: A separate useful page. My manual on my own might have been not organized as well, and your manual on your own would have its own issues. We work together to create the best stuff. Is your goal to have your personal project with your name on it and that's the purpose? Or is your purpose to encourage the community and do whatever is best for KXStudio? If the answer is the latter, then the way to do it is to treat me and everyone else with respect whether or not you agree with particular suggestions or edits.

Saying you're "sick of arguing" is missing the point. We're not trying to argue. We're wanting to help each other with our mutual goals. Don't expect to rehash the FLOSS debate. That was a learning experience. We found that most people's comments on that were not helpful because they were taking sides instead of working to find a solution. But we found an agreeable result. Hopefully everyone can learn from that, and it should be smoother in the future. We learn to get along and be productive and it should be more fun. Have some optimism. Believe in the result. Feel free to criticize my suggestions. I'll defend my ideas when I think they matter, but I will NEVER take it personally or be disrespectful. I am fine with criticism and respect your ideas and opinions.
Last edited by wolftune on Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Aaron Wolf
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danboid
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Re: KX mini manual

Post by danboid »

I know I said originally that I was doing them on a wiki so that others coud help finish the docs and thats what can still happen. If I continue I'll take my last versions of the pages and finish it privately and If I want feedback or editing done to something I'll ask for it.

Am I doing this for the fame and glory and massive riches? I think you know the answer to that one already!

It has become too much, seeing wolftune constantly edit everything I write. Sometimes it has been a genuine improvement but todays series of edits have proved to me I don't like working this way.

Excuse me if I'm not cut out for community development in this respect but I hate arguing and indeed its not doing anyone any favours,
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

wolftune
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Re: KX mini manual

Post by wolftune »

EDIT: sorry to waste time. Can we try to start over here?

Dan, you wrote this:
danboid wrote:You've totally trashed the flow AND meaning in your last bout of edits wolftune. I'll have to fix it later.
Please, in future don't edit anything I write that if you don't understand it. You've done this a few times now.
Here's what I should have said in response:

Dan, that's not a nice way to respond to someone's attempts to be helpful. :(
I'm just trying to incorporate ideas from the manual I've already written out myself. I think I do understand things, and I felt my edits were useful.
Could you please try again to be more constructive in your complaints? We can all share our ideas for the best result for KXStudio. I respect your feedback. Just wanting to help, please have patience.
Aaron Wolf
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danboid
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Re: KX mini manual

Post by danboid »

I've re-edited the Install chapter now, and moved the sections around a bit. The advanced partitioning bit deserves to stay so I just tweaked it.

Wolftune:

I have decided I will carry on writing the KX manual on the wiki and you (or others) can continue to edit it but I reserve the right to edit, remove or trash talk anything you or anyone else may add or change. If it was me editing docs you had originally written then I would only expect the same.

You are totally free to write your own KXStudio manual if you strongly disagree with what I have decided to cover and how.

Is that OK with you?
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

wolftune
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Re: KX mini manual

Post by wolftune »

Agreed! :D In fact, I really like the idea of staying with the wiki because I want you and others to help fix my mistakes! You have every right to edit, remove or otherwise keep control as primary editor, and I promise I will never simply revert something you do, that would be offensive.

I am happy to let you be the leader in the project. I'm only wanting to help. And I will also try to hesitate more and make sure that nothing I do loses the focus that you're writing.

I do have a minor request: please try to make your criticism constructive in how it's expressed. Trash talking doesn't lead well to good communication. BUT please feel completely free to completely reject things or go with whatever you think is best, just criticize the specific problems.

Anyway, I think your edits are excellent! This again shows the value because the way I wrote things on my own was not as good. So thanks!

I do have one question: why did you put the BIOS-based section at the bottom? Shouldn't that go next to the UEFI section?
Aaron Wolf
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