Why people dont like KDE ?

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i2productions
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Re: Why people dont like KDE ?

Post by i2productions »

wolftune wrote: Please give me the benefit of the doubt and drop your defensiveness.
Exactly what I was thinking. Now I have a thread that's supposedly started by me, that started with 2 sentences about KDE, as part of a much more positive discussion. Those two, polite, simple sentences, that had little to nothing to do with describing KXStudio in part, or as a whole. But falkTX took it personally, and you seem to as well anytime anyone says something about KDE. All I basicly hear from you is that I should rephrase my problems with KDE? I'm giving a detail description of what's wrong. Why does it need to be more simply rephrased. I thought I spelled it out so that it could not be misinterpreted. I'm wondering, if me testing KDE 4.10 is even worth it. As soon as I find more things I don't like, and post anything about it, we're going to degenerate to this again. I never wanted the "distinction" of owning this thread to begin with.

Grayson..apparently you and everyone is missing the point of my example. It's 1 example I had off the top of my head. It's more steps than other desktops, and not well worded, as I found MANY of the settings in KDE to be.
(Gnome and LXDE for example and most are the same)
1.)Right-Click on desktop
2.)Left click on 'Change Desktop Background.'
3.)Click Browse
4.)Choose Image
5.)Press Ok
Why is KDE's instructions THE ONLY one in all the desktops that's more complicated than these steps?

This board has a way of taking all the fun out of life sometimes.

GraysonPeddie
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Re: Why people dont like KDE ?

Post by GraysonPeddie »

That's very similar to KDE. Right-click, left-click Folder View Settings, Open..., browse for image, and hit OK.
--Grayson Peddie

Music Interest: New Age w/ a mix of modern smooth jazz, light techno/trance & downtempo -- something Epcot Future World/Tomorrowland-flavored.

tbritton
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Re: Why people dont like KDE ?

Post by tbritton »

i2productions wrote:
riffmastergeneral wrote:is it that people dont like KDE ?
One reason. Bloated (yes more than gnome)
Didn't your mother or a girlfriend ever tell you it is not polite to use the word "bloated"? Not ever? In any context? ;-)

Terry

Alwaysanewb
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Re: Why people dont like KDE ?

Post by Alwaysanewb »

I don't use kde or any programs with kde in the name just for the reasons there are specific people named katie I know i despise. Not that everyone named katie is bad there are plenty of great katies I'm sure. I know that's a dumb reason not to use something but honestly it's the only reason I have never even tried it and never will.

i2productions
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Re: Why people dont like KDE ?

Post by i2productions »

Alwaysanewb wrote:I don't use kde or any programs with kde in the name just for the reasons there are specific people named katie I know i despise. Not that everyone named katie is bad there are plenty of great katies I'm sure. I know that's a dumb reason not to use something but honestly it's the only reason I have never even tried it and never will.
Finally a light in a dark place. So would it be ok if kxstudios next tool was Catie, as long as its not with a K? :lol:

stanlea
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Re: Why people dont like KDE ?

Post by stanlea »

I don't like KDE because I don't like KDE. I have no more arguments. In my view, KXstudio should always allow the user to choose his desktop. This said, I don't know (still) exactly what is the best option for installing something else than Gnome or KDE (XFCE for instance) :
- does XFCE allow all apps to work nicely ?
- is it better to install first Xubuntu then the KX repos or to install KXstudio, then switch from KDE to XFCE ?

Any advice for that ?

Another point : from my point of view, office apps, games and so on are useless. Maybe they shouldn't be installed automatically. I have a PC dedicated to music, and others for my office work. Does it makes sense ?

:)

i2productions
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Re: Why people dont like KDE ?

Post by i2productions »

If you want to try another desktop, it is best to do a fresh install. Pick a flavor of Ubuntu(preferably 12.04), just about any flavor will do. Then use the kxstudio ubuntu upgrade guide. I'll give you a list of my preferred distros for various desktops:

Cinnamon-Mint 13(Cinnamon)
MATE-Mint 13(MATE)
XFCE-UbuntuStudio 12.04
LXDE-PeppermintOS Three
e17-Bodhi

I have an upgrade guide here:http://www.linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9666

All the tools seems to work exactly the same. There really isn't a lot of effort involved in getting kxstudio on alternate desktops. Pick a distro, install, copy&paste a half dozen terminal commands.

If minimal is your thing, Bodhi and Peppermint are for you. You basicly get a desktop and a few basic tools.

stanlea
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Re: Why people dont like KDE ?

Post by stanlea »

That's what I thought. Thanks for answering.

wolftune
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Re: Why people dont like KDE ?

Post by wolftune »

i2productions wrote:
wolftune wrote: Please give me the benefit of the doubt and drop your defensiveness.
Exactly what I was thinking.
Great, so we're on the same page, mostly. Sorry for any over-interpretation I did of your posts. When you say things that seem to passively-aggressively blame me for your decisions about your YALS project and about all the fun being taken away, I interpreted it as you being pretty upset that I was simply defending why I like KDE and cricizing your tone in the way you reject it. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though. You were probably just being concisely trite in your replies.

My overall point in the whole thing is about this benefit-of-the-doubt thing. It turns out that people are often nice folks despite some impressions or miscommunications. Give them a chance in a friendly way, they often turn out better than you'd expect. And give them time, people evolve and grow and change their minds and adapt. If we try to get along, we can. We just need to listen to each other respectfully even when we disagree. And, here's the kicker, the same advice applies for DE's…
Aaron Wolf
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tatch
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Re: Why people dont like KDE ?

Post by tatch »

stanlea wrote:Another point : from my point of view, office apps, games and so on are useless. Maybe they shouldn't be installed automatically. I have a PC dedicated to music, and others for my office work. Does it makes sense ?
off-topic, but I think a lot of people tend to use one computer for most of their purposes so having those extra things is necessary. Maybe there could be an option to specify what types of apps are included at installation, though that would also complicate the installation process by 1 extra click. (but I also think that those types of desktop games are pretty useless regardless, would not mind seeing them go altogether)

wolftune
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Re: Why people dont like KDE ?

Post by wolftune »

I think LibreOffice is such a basic, that it should certainly be installed by default (even Calc, which currently is absent in KXStudio install). Yes, most people (the vast majority I am sure) do not have nor want to have separate computers for each of their main types of tasks. It is easy enough to uninstall things.

But anyway, I don't know what this reference to games is about. KXStudio installations do not automatically include any games.
Aaron Wolf
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http://wolftune.com

i2productions
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Re: Why people dont like KDE ?

Post by i2productions »

wolftune wrote: But anyway, I don't know what this reference to games is about. KXStudio installations do not automatically include any games.
I think we're talking general desktops here. And what should and should not be before studio packages are added.

ToddMWorth
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Re: Why people dont like KDE ?

Post by ToddMWorth »

I'll share a story with you. Once, I had a contract to migrate from Outlook email to GroupWise for a customer. We're talking about a few thousand desktops. The project went smoothly, and the day came for the new client to be rolled out. The helpdesk was inundated with calls, the Management team called an emergency meeting to discuss the new client app. We sat down and discussed the users' complaints and they mostly amounted to one issue - Nobody could figure out how to send email.

Now, the funny part about this, is the way to send an email. You click the button in the toolbar at the top that says, "Send". In outlook. AND GROUPWISE. It's EXACTLY the same.... only.... different graphics on the button.

End-users were complaining that GroupWise was not a good client, saying it was unintuitive and malfunctional. They were actually wrong. What the real problem was, that they had been made so familiar with the old way of doing things, that anything else seemed to be a hunk of crap.

Think about that for a bit ;)

ToddMWorth
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Re: Why people dont like KDE ?

Post by ToddMWorth »

i2productions wrote:
ToddMWorth wrote:I think it's important not to blur the lines between configurability and bloat. You don't need one to have the other, they aren't really related.
When you can't find the option in the system to configure what you want the way you want it, because there's too damn many configuration options spread over various menus, what good does it do you?
You are talking about obscurity or unintuitive design. That's not bloat though.

I'm not arguing your point, only your terminology. You don't help your cause by making erroneous accusations against KDE. It may or may not be bloated, but if you are complaining about bloat, you should actually complain about bloat, because if you say "bloat" and actually mean "obscurity", your argument will be flawed, it will fail, and noone will take your argument seriously. I'm really interested in the DE 'war' (because I haven't found one I really really want to settle on yet) so please, get your words straight so I can benefit from your valuable insight :)

i2productions
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Re: Why people dont like KDE ?

Post by i2productions »

I do also believe it's bloated(and unintuitive at the same time!) I haven't used it in a while, so I'd have to actually 'attempt' to use it again, to give you a full run down of what I mean. But, by bloat I do mean, that you're looking at KDE from the KXStudio 12.04 at around 300 MB loaded on my machine. My cairo-dock session w/gnome w/effects loads in around 225:
Cinnamon:275
Razor QT:190
LXDE:150
e17:120
[Note that these numbers are derived all desktops running kxstudio with Cadence/JACK auto-loaded at start with a2j and Cadence send-daemon-aloop and all "normal" processes(unmodified except by Kxstudio) for that desktop at startup]
These are just rough numbers from memory, but this is about the amount of RAM that these respective desktops load in on my computer. If bloat is purely a measure of RAM usage, than KDE certainly qualifies in my eyes. I realize all can be slimmed and trimmed on loaded processes. But, I feel this is a good starting point for a benchmark. When I have some time soon, maybe I'll give it another spin and give you specifics.

Glad you're amused by this DE war, because I never wanted this, and certainly didn't want my name on the top thread. It's certainly not that I'm "just used to something else", I just know what feels good to work with. And in 8 years, I have never enjoyed using KDE, yet I feel at home in NEARLY all others(with the exception of things like JWM and similar ultra-low usage desktops and other desktops that seem to be solutions in search of a problem like Unity and default Gnome3.)
Last edited by i2productions on Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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