danboid FINALLY tries KXstudio!!!

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tatch
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Re: danboid FINALLY tries KXstudio!!!

Post by tatch »

danboid wrote: The apps page does mention Klaudia but not Claudia- is that the old spelling/name of Claudia? I'm presuming its not a typo as its been written twice and in that way for some time.
Klaudia is deprecated, it's basically the same thing as Claudia Launcher (Shift+F2 or something in Claudia, also works standalone) but probably not as good.

see here http://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=10469

danboid
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Re: danboid FINALLY tries KXstudio!!!

Post by danboid »

Earlier in this thread I bemoaned KX/Cadences lack of docs but at the time I hadn't noticed (if indeed it was there in that version) the 'Tools' tab of Cadence which features screenshots and descriptions of all the main Cadence apps. This hasn't been added in recent weeks has it? Regardless, it certainly helps but one of them seems broken or redundant (Catarina? Its the link to the test patchbay app I think).

What disappointed me about Cadence is one of my main gripes about qjackctl too in that they both belittle the importance (to me, at least) of the JACK/ALSA IO device selection dropdowns in that I have to go into Configure then choose the Devices tab before I get to see what device I'm currently using or if I want to change my IO device. For various reasons I switch ALSA devices multiple times a day. I realise that many others may not switch so often but a large chunk of people on these boards will at least have more than 1 ALSA device attached to their machine and it would aid troubleshooting to be able to identify at a glance which device JACK is running on without having to dig into multiple submenus so for these reasons I'd like to see the ALSA IO device selectors added to the main Cadence window.

Having ALSA2JACK support integrated into Cadence is the main advantage Cadence has over qjackctl for me but qjackctl also does what Catia does too. I'm not sure if I prefer them separated out like that. It may make debugging and dev easier but I'm undecided if either way is better for users as the patchbay is the most used aspect of qjackctl aside from starting and stopping JACK.

Thats my 2p anyhoo, take it or leave it Mr F! :)
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

danboid
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Re: danboid FINALLY tries KXstudio!!!

Post by danboid »

falkTX wrote: The issue is that you can change any settings after JACK is started, and there's no way to know the exact parameters used to start JACK.
So the device selected in the jack-configure dialog may sometimes not match the one you're using right now.
I see your point. Surely though it'd be possible to show the selected device when JACK has been started via Cadence? I must admit I've not tried starting JACK via CLI under KX yet to see how well it plays with Cadence when run like that and I realise that this may not be a valid feature request if it can only work sometimes.

That aspect of my suggestion was only an additional benefit. It would've been great to have a quick and easy way to check which device is running JACK but my only wish for Cadence is that I could select the next ALSA devices to be used on next JACK restart on the main page. There is currently a blank area to the bottom left of the main Cadence window that'd certainly be big enough to accommodate ALSA (and FFADO) IO device selection.

falkTX wrote: There's an easy workaround though - just enable "Use aliases" in the engine tab and "Hardware Aliases" in the driver tab.
Claudia will then use the device names instead of 'Hardware Playback', and in Catia just enable "1st aliases" option.
That sounds like it'd make Cadence use the device strings instead of their ALSA hw: names, right? I can see how that'd help identify which device is running JACK but it doesn't make switching devices easier does it?
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

wolftune
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Re: danboid FINALLY tries KXstudio!!!

Post by wolftune »

falkTX wrote: It's not possible to do this right now because of the JACK API itself, nothing else.
The issue is that you can change any settings after JACK is started, and there's no way to know the exact parameters used to start JACK.
So the device selected in the jack-configure dialog may sometimes not match the one you're using right now.

There's an easy workaround though - just enable "Use aliases" in the engine tab and "Hardware Aliases" in the driver tab.
Claudia will then use the device names instead of 'Hardware Playback', and in Catia just enable "1st aliases" option.
Wow. This explains a lot. My biggest frustration also (something which very nearly made a student completely give up on KXStudio multiple times) has been the confusion about device swapping. The thing is, he couldn't tell what was the setting to use because things looked right, and various setups resulted in JACK totally failing to start, crashing, programs failing, so setup in Claudia making it such that if he had the device plugged in or not it made the difference between it running at all or not, and it was baffling to try to sort out the problems. If he always used the same device and never unplugged it, this wouldn't happen, but that's not a reasonable situation.

I didn't know about these Alias options, but I found a bug with them. If I use hardware aliases with duplex then both devices are the same "HDA ATI SB" even though I am switching the input back and forth. If I turn off hardware alias, then instead of "capture" I see "hw:Device,0" for the USB and "hw:SB.0" for internal sound. This is at least distinct. I guess this is a bug: when I use duplex mode with hardware aliases, both the input and output get the alias of the output device.

I also get totally confused about the JACK configure settings in Claudia vs Cadence (and Catia too, there also I can access a configure window!). It looks like both programs can set things but there's no way to tell which is actually doing things. They ought to mirror each other or otherwise be only in one place. And there's no "switch master" option in Claudia. All this is baffling.

Ok, I think that if the duplex mode naming bug is fixed, then the alias workaround is good, and that helps clarify things. Too bad about JACK API. Somehow that really ought to be fixed so that the settings in the configure actually reflect the status. This is a big problem, especially for newbies. Very confusing. :(
Aaron Wolf
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http://wolftune.com

wolftune
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Re: danboid FINALLY tries KXstudio!!!

Post by wolftune »

falkTX wrote:
wolftune wrote:I didn't know about these Alias options, but I found a bug with them. If I use hardware aliases with duplex then both devices are the same "HDA ATI SB" even though I am switching the input back and forth. If I turn off hardware alias, then instead of "capture" I see "hw:Device,0" for the USB and "hw:SB.0" for internal sound. This is at least distinct. I guess this is a bug: when I use duplex mode with hardware aliases, both the input and output get the alias of the output device.
oh, nice found.
nedko is the author of the alias options, I'll talk to him when I see him online.
If you have urgency on this, please report a bug for Cadence.
no urgency, but would definitely be nice to be fixed. Anyway, I didn't know about the alias trick before, so thanks
If you change something in the settings via Catia, close it, and then later open Claudia - the same settings will be there as defined before in Catia.
Those settings are shared across different applications (just not QjackCtl)
Great! Just knowing that any change in settings in Catia /Claudia / Cadence is mirrored is really good to know. I wasn't sure
The switch master is not preset on Claudia because ladish has issues with it.
I can put it on Catia's menus, if that sounds like a good idea to you... ?
Ok, and sure, putting switch master in Catia sounds good, but actually, how about putting switch master INSIDE the config dialog??? :shock: Then someone could keep that dialog open, and click switch master! Maybe there's a different way to do this, but I think this is Dan and my and my student's issue. It would be awesome to see the device tab of the JACK Settings as a stable window and be able to click switch master there. That would solve everything!
Aaron Wolf
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http://wolftune.com

danboid
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Re: danboid FINALLY tries KXstudio!!!

Post by danboid »

I have tried 'Switch Master!' under Cadence but I don't know what it is supposed to do. Switch Master what?
falkTX wrote: Hm I don't see how is opening a dialog and change an option is any hard...

I'm feeling I'm missing the point here...
When use qjackctl, I use it for 3 main things:

1 - Starting and stopping JACK

2 - Choosing my JACK IO device

3 - Making and breaking JACK connections

With Cadence, #3 is handled separately and I don't have a prob with that. Starting/stopping JACK is done in 1 click with both Cadence and qjackctl but I'm disappointed that both have me digging into tabs of child windows to reach the settings to change #2. In fact its more out of the way in Cadence than it is in qjackctl.

So I have to perform 2 extra clicks to reach the settings you say? So what? Those two extra clicks build up when you are having to drill down into the same menu multiple times a day, every day. I'm sure every experienced computer user will agree that routine, everyday tasks demand their use be as streamlined as is possible so they don't grate. It just seems silly to me that I'm constantly going into Configure, then to the driver tab when there is ample space remaining in Cadences main window to choose your IO device or...

Maybe you and wolftune have already fixed my problem and I just don't know it yet but I've been thinking about how I'd like to see my Cadence usage issues resolved and I now think that the best use of the free space in the main Cadence Window now would be a Device Profile list. I normally use the same ALSA device for both input and ouput when I switch but sometimes I'll use the mic input on my laptop but my portable USB hifi for output etc. Some people use different buffer and period setting depending on if they're tracking or mixing so it would be great if under the Configure / Drivers there was a button added to save the currently selected settings (IO devices, buffer, period vals etc) as a Device Profile which would then appear in the Device Profile list in Cadences main window.
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

Thad E Ginathom
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Re: danboid FINALLY tries KXstudio!!!

Post by Thad E Ginathom »

danboid wrote:I have tried 'Switch Master!' under Cadence but I don't know what it is supposed to do. Switch Master what?
It seems a bit cryptic to me too, and I had not understood it. First impression is that it seems to stop everything and then start it again?

Just now I enabled the on-board sound card on my PC so that there would be two working interfaces, one Firewire and one Alsa, so I see that, if I go to the engine tab and select ALSA, then go back to the main screen and hit "Switch Master" it disconnects that Firewire and connects the Alsa. So "switch master" seems to mean "change interface," ...but one has to go to another window to select which interface first.

danboid
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Re: danboid FINALLY tries KXstudio!!!

Post by danboid »

Great but how would that work for switching between 2 or more ALSA devices and how does switch master differ from Force Restart?
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

danboid
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Re: danboid FINALLY tries KXstudio!!!

Post by danboid »

I've got 'Switch Master' to work now and I can see using that is going to be preferable to restarting JACK as its instant but I don't think 'Switch Master!' is a good label or description. How about 'Switch Device', 'Renew driver' or 'Refresh JACK IO' - any of those or something similar would be more descriptive and I'd drop the exclamation mark! :)

So wolftune is suggesting moving this button to under Config / Driver next to the device settings is he? That wouldn't really improve things for me. I'd prefer it if it got renamed as I just recommended and stay where it is but the user could pick the ALSA/FFADO device to be used from the main Cadence window. However, I suspect F isn't keen on bringing these options out from hiding so in that case a good compromise, if he's bothered about my preferences in these matters, would be to adjust the Config window so that 'Driver' becomes the default tab instead of 'Engine'.

I dunno about any other KX users but I've not yet had need to alter anything on the 'Engine' tab of the Cadence config window but I'm constantly visting the Driver tab so if they swapped positions it'd be saving me many clicks a day.
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

wolftune
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Re: danboid FINALLY tries KXstudio!!!

Post by wolftune »

danboid wrote:I've got 'Switch Master' to work now and I can see using that is going to be preferable to restarting JACK as its instant but I don't think 'Switch Master!' is a good label or description. How about 'Switch Device', 'Renew driver' or 'Refresh JACK IO' - any of those or something similar would be more descriptive and I'd drop the exclamation mark! :)

So wolftune is suggesting moving this button to under Config / Driver next to the device settings is he? That wouldn't really improve things for me. I'd prefer it if it got renamed as I just recommended and stay where it is but the user could pick the ALSA/FFADO device to be used from the main Cadence window. However, I suspect F isn't keen on bringing these options out from hiding so in that case a good compromise, if he's bothered about my preferences in these matters, would be to adjust the Config window so that 'Driver' becomes the default tab instead of 'Engine'.

I dunno about any other KX users but I've not yet had need to alter anything on the 'Engine' tab of the Cadence config window but I'm constantly visting the Driver tab so if they swapped positions it'd be saving me many clicks a day.
Dan, I agree about the naming. Anyway, I didn't necessarily say to "move" but to "place" i.e. I want that button on the Driver tab. It's ok if it is also staying where it is. However, it does no good on its own. It only does anything if you change settings. So I want that button and the settings to be in one place, whether it is the settings moving to where the button is or the button being where the settings are. But the button can be in more than one place anyway.

And I agree 100% about the Driver tab. The suggestion I made, because it is easy enough, is to remember what tab someone was on. That way, configure button will go back to the driver tab right away if that's where you were before. So if you click configure, see the driver tab right away, and right there you have the renamed switch master button, that is the smoothest thing, that's what we both want.
Aaron Wolf
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danboid
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Re: danboid FINALLY tries KXstudio!!!

Post by danboid »

OK - that all sounds fine to me wolfman!

Now we must wait patiently for the falktx magic to happen and then I will sleep easy knowing I'm not wasting too many clicks in my precious Linux audio workflow! Its important stuff you know!

:D
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

danboid
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Re: danboid FINALLY tries KXstudio!!!

Post by danboid »

Excuse me falk, I know it isn't your first language but your English is normally better than Claudia's 'Automatic studio created' notice which I think should read:

(The) JACK server isn't auto-started by (the) ladish (daemon) and there is no studio loaded so a new studio has been created and started.

Rather than 'JACK server is started not by ladish daemon and there is no loaded studio, so a new studio is created and marked as started.' which is a bit odd sounding and drawn out. Its a long message so maybe drop the text I have bracketed and it'd still make sense and read better than the current notice. Is the first half of that notice really required though? Wouldn't just 'A new LADISH studio has been (auto)created' do?
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

danboid
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Re: danboid FINALLY tries KXstudio!!!

Post by danboid »

Oh right - sorry!

I'll redirect my grammar woes to the most naughty Mr A then!
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

ToddMWorth
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Re: danboid FINALLY tries KXstudio!!!

Post by ToddMWorth »

danboid wrote:I've got 'Switch Master' to work now and I can see using that is going to be preferable to restarting JACK as its instant but I don't think 'Switch Master!' is a good label or description. How about 'Switch Device', 'Renew driver' or 'Refresh JACK IO' - any of those or something similar would be more descriptive and I'd drop the exclamation mark! :)
Uhm...but you're not doing any of those things.... You're changing the master backend driver configuration....

I see where you're coming from but perhaps the name only seems counterintuitive because you didn't know the terminology - that was the case for me, at least. Now, I think it's fairly appropriately named.

danboid
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Re: danboid FINALLY tries KXstudio!!!

Post by danboid »

OK, so its the 'Master backend driver switch/configuration'. The key word there is 'driver' - without that or a mouseover tooltip to explain its purpose its hard for anyone to know what it does without significant experimentation, documentation (that doesn't exist yet) or reading the code.
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

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