Automation?

Practical tips for recording, editing, and mastering.

Moderators: MattKingUSA, khz

User avatar
sysrqer
Established Member
Posts: 2516
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:47 pm
Has thanked: 319 times
Been thanked: 147 times
Contact:

Re: Automation?

Post by sysrqer »

Can anyone tell me in simple words what the benefits of automation are?
Creates movement and interest. Want to do a fade in/out? Automation. Want to pan something from one side to another? Automation.
In the old days they used to have multiple engineers at the same time moving faders etc to ride the volume and make the mix how they wanted it to be while recording to tape, automation is basically what this is. It is something that has been used in professional mixing at least since the 60s.

What can you do with it? What does it for you? What are the benefits off all that?
You can do whatever you like, your imagination is the only limit. Listen to King Tubby, that guy had 10 arms.

Why must i use it?? Can i do without, or not??
Do what you want. In most modern music it is very normal to use and pretty much essential to add interest. Your music will definitely be better for using it but no one is saying you have to.

Edit: to add to this, you can use it to make your song much more powerful. For example, you can set your verses to be panned fairly narrowly and then in the chorus make it open up and sound big and wide. Same for volume, you can automate tracks or the master bus to be slightly quieter for verses and bump it up a db or two for the chorus. This makes the song more dynamic and have more impact but it's so subtle that you wouldn't notice it necessarily. The engineers for Smells Like Teen Spirit used this method, it's partly why the choruses are so huge.

Also, your comment in another thread about seeing a school band which sounded mechanical is the equivalent not using automation in a mix. Makes it less static, less boring, less predictable. The small inconsistencies which make good performance sound human is exactly why a good mix will usually have automation. Think of the mix and the desk/mixer as an instrument and you see the parallel.
User avatar
lilith
Established Member
Posts: 1698
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 11:41 pm
Location: bLACK fOREST
Has thanked: 117 times
Been thanked: 57 times
Contact:

Re: Automation?

Post by lilith »

Code: Select all

Creates movement and interest.
In what kind of way? What do you mean by "movement" or "interest"?
What can and/or will "it" do with my music? And how?

Want to do a fade in/out? Automation.
Fade in and out? That's at the beginning and end and that simple that i can't imagine what should be "automated" for that?
For instance you can automize the cutoff freq of a synth to vary the sound exactly at the position you like. Or to cut the high freqs of synth1 at one position to make synth2 which plays in the same freq range sound more clear, etc. etc. You can automize distortion, pitch or whatever ...
Fading is not just the beginning and end as you can automize the volume by a volume envelope basically everywhere.
User avatar
lilith
Established Member
Posts: 1698
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 11:41 pm
Location: bLACK fOREST
Has thanked: 117 times
Been thanked: 57 times
Contact:

Re: Automation?

Post by lilith »

Last edited by lilith on Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
lilith
Established Member
Posts: 1698
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 11:41 pm
Location: bLACK fOREST
Has thanked: 117 times
Been thanked: 57 times
Contact:

Re: Automation?

Post by lilith »

EXACTLY
tavasti
Established Member
Posts: 2041
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:56 am
Location: Kangasala, Finland
Has thanked: 369 times
Been thanked: 207 times
Contact:

Re: Automation?

Post by tavasti »

42low wrote:Can anyone tell me in simple words what the benefits of automation are?
What can you do with it? What does it for you? What are the benefits off all that?
Why must i use it?? Can i do without, or not??
If you are using midi, with automation you can add some variation to it. Static sound with static tempo is not so nice. Instead, adjust some parameters. I would pick filter frequency, resonance and portamento, everything slighly changing all the time.

If you are playing everything with real instruments, then you don't need automation, but it might have some use even with them. Adjust volumes of some tracks, and chorus/reverb/echo to some parts.

HTH

Linux veteran & Novice musician

Latest track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycVrgGtrBmM

User avatar
lilith
Established Member
Posts: 1698
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 11:41 pm
Location: bLACK fOREST
Has thanked: 117 times
Been thanked: 57 times
Contact:

Re: Automation?

Post by lilith »

Got me a question left though.
Manual, write, touch.... but still that has to be set (by yourself, manually).
Is there some kind of way to do it automated??
With Write you can even turn the knobs in your synth and this will record the automation. You can also use it with a LFO for example, which automizes your automation. :D
barbouze
Established Member
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 12:26 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Automation?

Post by barbouze »

The best would be to give us a quick overview of your workflow to set a case study.

In the mean time this is what I use automation for:
- Precision: an automation track can be edited to get the automated parameter behave exactly like you want it to change over time -> raised that filter cutoff a little late and a little too high? Just edit it to get that perfect acid rise to set the drop.
- Reliability: once a parameter is automated, it will behave always the same way as long as you don't change it -> you can focus on editing gain for a singer and then never need to look back once it is done.
- Complexity: change the behavior of anything at any time in a certain way -> you could seamlessly change an FX preset to another one during 8 bars, moving 20+ parameters at the same time.
User avatar
sysrqer
Established Member
Posts: 2516
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:47 pm
Has thanked: 319 times
Been thanked: 147 times
Contact:

Re: Automation?

Post by sysrqer »

42low wrote:
sysrqer wrote:You can do whatever you like, your imagination is the only limit.
That's exactly my problem. I can't imagine it enough to get a start with it.

What you tell me is right as what you tell me i've read everywhere, and what doesn't land on me.
I can't get a good idea about the possibilities. Tried, but still don't understand what to do with it and how.
To get a start i need some imagination, and that's why i asked for the most simple explanations i can get.
Start by automating some panning, doesn't need to be drastic but little changes in different sections of the song can make a big difference. Or have delay/chorus/phaser/reverb on a track and start with the wet at -inf and automate the wet so towards the end of the phrase or section the effect becomes louder. Again, you can do it very subtly so you don't even know it's there but it is and it creates some mood or tension or excitement. Put delays on your return/aux channels and put some filters after the delay, turn up the feedback and automate the filters, as well as automating the send levels on the tracks to make certain words or hits affected. Even just the volume fader. If your track has guitars and vocals, turn the guitars down slightly when the vocals come in, it will give them more space and attention, then turn them up afterwards so they impact more when the vocal stops.

Just experiment. Try taking a track you have mixed already and automating as many parameters as you can across all the tracks, even just a little bit. You might be surprised by the things you come up with and the depth it can create.
42low wrote: I understand that "some edits" will be easy when automated and i want to learn something about it. But i can't get it.
Normally i understand what something's about and soon or later get it done. I'm not doing childish or fooling or whatever. It's for real. This one i really can't get a grip on. I'm slightly ashamed. :oops:
Nothing to be ashamed of, everyone starts somewhere.
42low wrote: Creates movement and interest.
In what kind of way? What do you mean by "movement" or "interest"?
What can and/or will "it" do with my music? And how?
Well, I gave you an example in my previous post about how it was used in the Nirvana song. Think about a song written in quantised midi. It has very little soul or groove or feeling. If you add subtleties to it, like timing variations, velocity/volume differences, it starts to come to life more (the difference between a midi file of a piano piece and a piano player playing the same piece). This exactly how it is with mixing, if you change something the ear picks it up and it is something of interest to the brain, music generally is repetitive in nature so little changes can make all the difference. Listen to to well produced professional music and hear how things can swell in volume or all of a sudden there is more stereo depth or a verse will start quiet and before the chorus it is loud and ready.
42low wrote: Want to do a fade in/out? Automation.
Fade in and out? That's at the beginning and end and that simple that i can't imagine what should be "automated" for that?
Doing a fade in or out is automation. You set it and it does it, that's automated. It doesn't have to be confined to the start and end, and it doesn't need to be fade to zero, you can ride the levels.
42low wrote: Want to pan something from one side to another? Automation.
Ok. Pan. But is it going to be automatically automated? When? How will this be implemented and know when and were to change?
I have an autopanning plugin. How does automation do that? How must i make automation do that?
You don't have to. You can used an autopanner if that does the job but that's pretty much the same thing, just saves you some work, it is doing something to a parameter (pan) that you don't have to manually move yourself. There are times when automating it is better though, and to do that you choose the pan automation lane and draw in something. In ardour, click on the A button and choose what you want to automate, then draw on the line that is there.
42low wrote: A question a play with for instance.
Can i use automation to get a track levelled in volume? You know, were a vocalist sings at -3db, but sometimes ducks to -8 or -10db?
Can i then let this all be automated normalized at -3db? And how?
[/quote]
Yes. Today a lot of times people use compressors for that task but a few decades ago engineers would have their finger on the vocal fader for the whole song and record movements so the vocal is roughly the same level, then do the same for the next vocal track, and the same for the guitars. Some studios would have many engineers doing this live in one take (I think they did that for Dark Side of the Moon but don't quote me on that) and record the result. Now we don't have to worry about doing it all at the same time, we can automate as many things as we want.
User avatar
sysrqer
Established Member
Posts: 2516
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:47 pm
Has thanked: 319 times
Been thanked: 147 times
Contact:

Re: Automation?

Post by sysrqer »

Ardour is pretty painful to use for automation though.
User avatar
lilith
Established Member
Posts: 1698
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 11:41 pm
Location: bLACK fOREST
Has thanked: 117 times
Been thanked: 57 times
Contact:

Re: Automation?

Post by lilith »

sysrqer wrote:Ardour is pretty painful to use for automation though.
Why?
User avatar
sysrqer
Established Member
Posts: 2516
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:47 pm
Has thanked: 319 times
Been thanked: 147 times
Contact:

Re: Automation?

Post by sysrqer »

Having to set write/touch for every single parameter (at least as far as I know there is no global mode), editing is fiddly. It's just over complicated, when you look at the way that programs like ableton live or bitwig can deal with it ardour is horrible to use. It's fine if you need to do a fade in or out but getting in depth is annoying. Having to change tools to make a selection and then change that selection isn't ideal, you can develop reasonably quick ways to work but there's a lot of unnecessary steps. From conversations with Paul I gather that he thinks the whole automation system needs an overhaul but probably won't happen any time soon.
jonetsu
Established Member
Posts: 2036
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:05 am
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: Automation?

Post by jonetsu »

And there are no predefined waves in Ardour, or automated way of creating wave patterns. You'd like to quickly put a sine wave, then you have to draw it. And once drawn, there's no way to change it's frequency, it's shape, etc...
tavasti
Established Member
Posts: 2041
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:56 am
Location: Kangasala, Finland
Has thanked: 369 times
Been thanked: 207 times
Contact:

Re: Automation?

Post by tavasti »

jonetsu wrote:And there are no predefined waves in Ardour, or automated way of creating wave patterns. You'd like to quickly put a sine wave, then you have to draw it. And once drawn, there's no way to change it's frequency, it's shape, etc...
If you want to have some wave shape, then you should be using LFO, not automation. And sure, you could use automation to adjust your LFO (haven't done this in ardour, and don't know if it is possible there)

Linux veteran & Novice musician

Latest track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycVrgGtrBmM

jonetsu
Established Member
Posts: 2036
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:05 am
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: Automation?

Post by jonetsu »

tavasti wrote:If you want to have some wave shape, then you should be using LFO, not automation. And sure, you could use automation to adjust your LFO (haven't done this in ardour, and don't know if it is possible there)
Sure. Where are the LFOs in Ardour again ?
jonetsu
Established Member
Posts: 2036
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:05 am
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: Automation?

Post by jonetsu »

42low wrote: Yes hou can change it. Watch the yt link posted here earlier.
That's not it. By 'change', the meaning is a waveform as it was mentioned in the sentence before it. For instance, if there's a sine wave, then you could click on one top of the wave and drag left/right the whole wave that spans the full automation to a shorter cycle without having to redraw everything which would take a long time. You'd go from say a 60Hz automation wave to 10Hz wave in two seconds.

Or you could click on the sine wave and move the mouse up/down and as the mouse is moved the wave would go from sine to triangle to square.

This is not about hand drawing.
Post Reply