Automation?

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lilith
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Re: Automation?

Postby lilith » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:54 pm

sysrqer wrote:Ardour is pretty painful to use for automation though.


Why?

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sysrqer
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Re: Automation?

Postby sysrqer » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:38 pm

Having to set write/touch for every single parameter (at least as far as I know there is no global mode), editing is fiddly. It's just over complicated, when you look at the way that programs like ableton live or bitwig can deal with it ardour is horrible to use. It's fine if you need to do a fade in or out but getting in depth is annoying. Having to change tools to make a selection and then change that selection isn't ideal, you can develop reasonably quick ways to work but there's a lot of unnecessary steps. From conversations with Paul I gather that he thinks the whole automation system needs an overhaul but probably won't happen any time soon.

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42low
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Re: Automation?

Postby 42low » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:56 pm

Great and clear explanation sysrqer! Thanks. I appriciate this a lot from you in person.

Off course i'm very thankfull to all who helped me with this. A small part about production i didn't knew yet, but a very nice step forward for me.
Thanks!!

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Re: Automation?

Postby jonetsu » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:19 am

And there are no predefined waves in Ardour, or automated way of creating wave patterns. You'd like to quickly put a sine wave, then you have to draw it. And once drawn, there's no way to change it's frequency, it's shape, etc...

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Re: Automation?

Postby tavasti » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:18 am

jonetsu wrote:And there are no predefined waves in Ardour, or automated way of creating wave patterns. You'd like to quickly put a sine wave, then you have to draw it. And once drawn, there's no way to change it's frequency, it's shape, etc...

If you want to have some wave shape, then you should be using LFO, not automation. And sure, you could use automation to adjust your LFO (haven't done this in ardour, and don't know if it is possible there)
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42low
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Re: Automation?

Postby 42low » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:58 am

jonetsu wrote:And once drawn, there's no way to change it's frequency, it's shape, etc...

Yes hou can change it. Watch the yt link posted here earlier.
I was slightly struggling with it too, but it can be changed.

I get it! :mrgreen: I'm so happy.
A lot or less is the question but i will use this in the future for sure.

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Re: Automation?

Postby jonetsu » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:05 pm

tavasti wrote:If you want to have some wave shape, then you should be using LFO, not automation. And sure, you could use automation to adjust your LFO (haven't done this in ardour, and don't know if it is possible there)


Sure. Where are the LFOs in Ardour again ?

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Re: Automation?

Postby jonetsu » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:12 pm

42low wrote: Yes hou can change it. Watch the yt link posted here earlier.


That's not it. By 'change', the meaning is a waveform as it was mentioned in the sentence before it. For instance, if there's a sine wave, then you could click on one top of the wave and drag left/right the whole wave that spans the full automation to a shorter cycle without having to redraw everything which would take a long time. You'd go from say a 60Hz automation wave to 10Hz wave in two seconds.

Or you could click on the sine wave and move the mouse up/down and as the mouse is moved the wave would go from sine to triangle to square.

This is not about hand drawing.

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Re: Automation?

Postby lilith » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:55 pm

I don't know if Reaper can do this, but I think it's not fair to compare Ardour with Live in this respect. I'll check later if this is possible in Reaper.

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Re: Automation?

Postby sysrqer » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:55 pm

Everyone should watch unfa's video about the shortcomings of ardour, he talks a lot about the problems it has with automation.

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Re: Automation?

Postby sysrqer » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:59 pm

lilith wrote:I don't know if Reaper can do this, but I think it's not fair to compare Ardour with Live in this respect. I'll check later if this is possible in Reaper.

Reaper can. Why is it not fair? They have different approaches to automation and one is light years ahead of the other. There's no reason ardour could not function in a similar way.
Not sure why Reaper would be allowed to be compared but it, again, is way ahead and much easier to use for doing lots of automation (global modes, bezier curves, lfo shapes, and scaling/offsetting).

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lilith
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Re: Automation?

Postby lilith » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:16 pm

sysrqer wrote:
lilith wrote:I don't know if Reaper can do this, but I think it's not fair to compare Ardour with Live in this respect. I'll check later if this is possible in Reaper.

Reaper can. Why is it not fair? They have different approaches to automation and one is light years ahead of the other. There's no reason ardour could not function in a similar way.
Not sure why Reaper would be allowed to be compared but it, again, is way ahead and much easier to use for doing lots of automation (global modes, bezier curves, lfo shapes, and scaling/offsetting).


Reaper and Ardour can be compared , but Live or Bitwig is different.

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sysrqer
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Re: Automation?

Postby sysrqer » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:24 pm

lilith wrote:
Reaper and Ardour can be compared , but Live or Bitwig is different.


Why? They can both act in a linear fashion the same as ardour and reaper. The fact that Live and Bitwig have live functionality doesn't make a lot of difference to the way automation works.

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Re: Automation?

Postby 42low » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:24 pm

sysrqer wrote:Everyone should watch unfa's video about the shortcomings of ardour

I for sure will dig into the possibilities (nough for me new stuff to learn :D ) and also for sure will be confronted with limits. But that will not be a problem for me.
Perhaps i will also use automation in some other programs (LMMS?) and perhaps some tricks i'm going to prefer to do in those, but Ardour will remain my core DAW. Eventually i will do it with Ardour up to it's limits.
For it's shortcomings, then that's were my possibilities and actions will stop.

I like Ardour, do most in Ardour within what it can do for me, and Ardour is my core and this will stay this way for me.
I ♥ Ardour :mrgreen:

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Michael Willis
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Re: Automation?

Postby Michael Willis » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:35 pm

I know you're doing more traditional guitar band stuff, but if you ever get into electronica, a lot of synths allow you to use automation to modulate their parameters. I've heard plenty of electronic music that over time changes a high pass filter or low pass filter (or one of many other synth parameters). Zynaddsubfx has a "midi learn" feature that allows you to bind a number of it parameters to the midi CC automation.

Also, in my virtual orchestration, I used automation to control the "attack" of some of my tracks, like in a woodwind track some of the notes have a definite "tongue" sound and other notes are more smooth.

For your guitar work, you might try using automation in conjunction with effects, like guitarix or rakarrack. I believe that their parameters can be controlled by automation, so for example you could make the distortion or other effects change throughout the piece of music.


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