Polarity Inversion (invert phase, reverse polarity, etc.)

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funkmuscle
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Polarity Inversion (invert phase, reverse polarity, etc.)

Postby funkmuscle » Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:56 pm

can anyone explain invert phase when fattening a lead vocal track(stereo or mono)?
also show me how it's done in Ardour or Qtractor and how it should be applied?
also I've heard it can be used in metal guitars to fatten the sound too.

thanx
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Re: Polarity Inversion (invert phase, reverse polarity, etc.

Postby ssj71 » Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:31 pm

you can't hear polarity or phase at all. Where did you get the idea that it fattens anything? Perhaps there is some technique I don't know about. You can get interesting tones by mixing things out of phase, but I don't know if thats making it fatter at all.

Inverting it in ardour though is trivial: left click and go to polarity in the context menu.
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funkmuscle
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Re: Polarity Inversion (invert phase, reverse polarity, etc.

Postby funkmuscle » Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:56 pm

ssj71 wrote:you can't hear polarity or phase at all. Where did you get the idea that it fattens anything? Perhaps there is some technique I don't know about. You can get interesting tones by mixing things out of phase, but I don't know if thats making it fatter at all.

Inverting it in ardour though is trivial: left click and go to polarity in the context menu.


this article:
https://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr05/articles/protoolsnotes.htm

that's why I was asking because I hear nothing and I was trying to do what the article mentioned and I didn't notice anything.

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Re: Polarity Inversion (invert phase, reverse polarity, etc.

Postby artek » Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:03 pm

that's why I was asking because I hear nothing and I was trying to do what the article mentioned and I didn't notice anything.

Are you sure that you are not monitoring in mono? :lol:

Duplicate two times guitar track you have got, pan center first track, pan left second track and add chorus effect (100% wet), pan right third track and add same chorus effect (100% wet). Gain to taste.

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aprzekaz
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Re: Polarity Inversion (invert phase, reverse polarity, etc.

Postby aprzekaz » Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:49 pm

You can invert the phase in ardour with the little O with / over it in the mixer. this will cancel out in mono though so I would use the stereo delay trick they mention in that article.

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funkmuscle
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Re: Polarity Inversion (invert phase, reverse polarity, etc.

Postby funkmuscle » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:53 pm

aprzekaz wrote:You can invert the phase in ardour with the little O with / over it in the mixer. this will cancel out in mono though so I would use the stereo delay trick they mention in that article.


yeah I think I will try C delay trick too. Thanks for all the help guys!

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Markus
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Re: Polarity Inversion (invert phase, reverse polarity, etc.

Postby Markus » Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:00 pm

About the articles points on fattening:

* Only add more harmonics via saturation if you didn't already use a valve pre-amp. If you do it could be better to reduce the frequency range of the harmonics - it's about fattening and not about adding brilliance. Calf Saturator is able to do it in a single plug-in used as an insert effect.

* The second point with chorus does only work if the LFO of both choruses are in sync. Otherwise the additional signals doesn't get canceled on mono. Don't overdo this one because widening vocals too much results in a washy sound while *normally* vocals stand in front of a mix.

* The third point can easily be achieved with Calf Haas Enhancer without hassling with different delays and busses. Use it as an insert effect, both delays have a gain knob for mixing things in subtle.

Additional tips for vocals:

* If you want to use a long reverb tail on vocals choose a higher pre-delay setting (something like 50-150ms). This separates the reverb from the original signal. This way the vocals don't disappear in the wild (reverb moves signals to the background acoustically) and keep in front of the mix while also having a nice reverberation.

* Compression might be used as "New York Compression" - compressing the signal quite heavy and mix it into the original (Calf Compressor has a mix knob). It keeps the dynamic impression while raising the quieter parts. After compression it's mandatory to use a de-esser since compressors don't react on high frequencies enough.

* To add brilliance try to use an exciter instead of just raising the higher frequencies with an EQ. It adds more "air" instead of raising the (sometimes annoying) higher frequencies on long notes. The de-esser should be placed *after* an exciter.

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funkmuscle
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Re: Polarity Inversion (invert phase, reverse polarity, etc.

Postby funkmuscle » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:48 am

artek wrote:
that's why I was asking because I hear nothing and I was trying to do what the article mentioned and I didn't notice anything.

Are you sure that you are not monitoring in mono? :lol:

Duplicate two times guitar track you have got, pan center first track, pan left second track and add chorus effect (100% wet), pan right third track and add same chorus effect (100% wet). Gain to taste.

interesting.... thanx

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funkmuscle
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Re: Polarity Inversion (invert phase, reverse polarity, etc.

Postby funkmuscle » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:51 am

Markus wrote:About the articles points on fattening:

* Only add more harmonics via saturation if you didn't already use a valve pre-amp. If you do it could be better to reduce the frequency range of the harmonics - it's about fattening and not about adding brilliance. Calf Saturator is able to do it in a single plug-in used as an insert effect.

* The second point with chorus does only work if the LFO of both choruses are in sync. Otherwise the additional signals doesn't get canceled on mono. Don't overdo this one because widening vocals too much results in a washy sound while *normally* vocals stand in front of a mix.

* The third point can easily be achieved with Calf Haas Enhancer without hassling with different delays and busses. Use it as an insert effect, both delays have a gain knob for mixing things in subtle.

Additional tips for vocals:

* If you want to use a long reverb tail on vocals choose a higher pre-delay setting (something like 50-150ms). This separates the reverb from the original signal. This way the vocals don't disappear in the wild (reverb moves signals to the background acoustically) and keep in front of the mix while also having a nice reverberation.

* Compression might be used as "New York Compression" - compressing the signal quite heavy and mix it into the original (Calf Compressor has a mix knob). It keeps the dynamic impression while raising the quieter parts. After compression it's mandatory to use a de-esser since compressors don't react on high frequencies enough.

* To add brilliance try to use an exciter instead of just raising the higher frequencies with an EQ. It adds more "air" instead of raising the (sometimes annoying) higher frequencies on long notes. The de-esser should be placed *after* an exciter.


thanx for going into details..


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