[Solved] Mix down?

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lilith
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Re: Mix down?

Post by lilith »

Here's a DAW comparison chart which is quite nice:

https://www.admiralbumblebee.com/DAW-Chart.html

You can see the strenghts an the shortcomings of every DAW. Qtractor is not included though.

jonetsu
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Re: Mix down?

Post by jonetsu »

lilith wrote:Here's a DAW comparison chart which is quite nice:
"Ableton Live and Bitwig are amazing tools for live performers, and both offer some cool options for creative sound design built right in to the product."

Live performance and built-in synths and plug-ins ? Only that ? How is it possible to not take into account the Clips/Scenes -> Arranger workflow for all kinds of music creation ? And thus to put Bitwig at least on equal foot with all other DAWs, but more likely in a much more advantageous light since no other DAW is using that approach which allows for a lot of creative flexibility, apart, maybe, for Ableton.

His Bitwig notes are in the number of 3:

1) Bitwig re-record

No idea what this is regarding the workflow. Is it such an important item as to make it as a note of its own ? I doubt it.

2) Bitwig Customization - The community has done a fair job of unlocking various bits of Bitwig for customization

Sounds like the People have to Liberate Bitwig from the terrible developers. Again, no idea what this is about. There are video tutorials, like for any other products, and some people are coming up with creative uses. Unlocking various bits ? Sounds like Bitwig needs to be hacked to be useful.

3) Bitwig fragility - Bitwig team announcing/promising features that still have not been released

The software is fragile because some features are not yet implemented ?

That guy would fare very well as a Bild reporter. Or lower. :)
Last edited by jonetsu on Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

jonetsu
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Re: Mix down?

Post by jonetsu »

TAERSH wrote:E.g.: let's assume any intruder would be able to remove all the .so files from /usr/lib. For you, this would mean the end of anything plus re-installing of everything. I just press reset on the computers case and my system starts up like fresh installed. It runs totally in RAM. One can only destroy it when formatting the hd drive.
Well, for me it would mean that someone as intruded to start with. And got root access. Which is not impossible, but pretty unlikely. It starts with the firewall and exposed ports. Browser-side I use 'No script' with a stripped-down base config and really, I must be boring, but I do not browse dubious cheap sites. If I ever do, I double boot another OS which does not mount the main drives, and from there, start a virtual machine to get to the browser.

I see the point though. I presume your 'original' hardware disk is not mounted when the OS is running, only what's needed as hardware to save files and projects persistently.

I think now it's fairly obvious to say that Bitwig does not run because things are missing. I use Xubuntu 18.04 and Bitwig runs just fine. Bitwig does not need much, it's pretty much self-contained:

Code: Select all

ldd $(which bitwig-studio)
	linux-vdso.so.1 (0x00007ffc227f6000)
	libdl.so.2 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libdl.so.2 (0x00007f0939cde000)
	libpthread.so.0 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpthread.so.0 (0x00007f0939abf000)
	librt.so.1 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/librt.so.1 (0x00007f09398b7000)
	libm.so.6 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libm.so.6 (0x00007f0939519000)
	libgcc_s.so.1 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgcc_s.so.1 (0x00007f0939301000)
	libc.so.6 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6 (0x00007f0938f10000)
	/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x00007f0939ee2000)

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sysrqer
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Re: Mix down?

Post by sysrqer »

Reaper is far from limited. Your knowledge of how to use it is however.

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lilith
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Re: Mix down?

Post by lilith »

sysrqer wrote:Reaper is far from limited. Your knowledge of how to use it is however.
And ever will be :lol:

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TAERSH
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Re: Mix down?

Post by TAERSH »

sysrqer wrote:Reaper is far from limited. Your knowledge of how to use it is however.
Yes. I stated already in another post, meanwhile I was able to connect what I wanted to.
Though, still no use for LV2 plugins found. Only VST. And that IS quiet a limitation.
jonetsu wrote:Well, for me it would mean that someone as intruded to start with. And got root access.
Why should any intruder intend to format the hd. That's just stupid.
It's the your data an intruder is interested in. And those data have 'root-access' always, since you can use it without to sudo.

That 'running as root is dangerous' thingy is completely crap - except in a multi-user-environment. But in any case it doesn't secure your data. Only the OS. And this is pretty fast again setup. Though, it makes some work, of course.

But even if any intruder would format my hd drive. My data is always backed up.
My OS also. I just install a new boot-loader, set the boot-flag and copy the installation directory of my OS over from another USB flash drive.
All settings, programs and data are returning immediately as used at last time I backed it up - which I do several times a week to external USB drives. No need to setup/install anything again, thanks to the use of squash files for the programs and the OS.

Never lost any data - except one time, when I made a stupid mistake within a script I wrote.
I'm running as root in general, because I'm the commander of my OS. :wink:

Edit:
jonetsu wrote:I think now it's fairly obvious to say that Bitwig does not run because things are missing. I use Xubuntu 18.04 and Bitwig runs just fine. Bitwig does not need much, it's pretty much self-contained:
Probably it has to do with systemd? Which my OS is not using.

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Re: Mix down?

Post by jonetsu »

TAERSH wrote:Why should any intruder intend to format the hd. That's just stupid.
Well, there was only a mention of deleting shared object files, not formatting the whole thing.
TAERSH wrote:It's the your data an intruder is interested in. And those data have 'root-access' always, since you can use it without to sudo.
In your case yes, because you run everything as root. Otherwise, in 99.9% of cases, data is owned by a user account.

Which then has to do with:
TAERSH wrote:That 'running as root is dangerous' thingy is completely crap - except in a multi-user-environment.
I always run as user. root is only for rare maintenance tasks and such. When I used Kali Linux that's one thing I did not like off the bat: that everything is run as root. I like that as a user nothing basically can be done to harm the system, and certainly not a misplaced 'rm *' or such thing or, any software deciding to go beserk or otherwise doing things.
jonetsu wrote:I think now it's fairly obvious to say that Bitwig does not run because things are missing. I use Xubuntu 18.04 and Bitwig runs just fine. Bitwig does not need much, it's pretty much self-contained:
Probably it has to do with systemd? Which my OS is not using.[/quote]
I can't see why anything that has to do with boot up services could play a role in hindering Bitwig from running.

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TAERSH
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Re: Mix down?

Post by TAERSH »

Yes, you like to run as user, I like to run as root.
You may like beer or wine, I don't.
You may also listen to something/someone different I do.

Probably you should have a look/listen at some speeches of Mr. Stallman...

However: one man's pain is the other man's fun. :wink:

Systemd was just a thought, as I know there's some programs that needs systemd to run.
It's also the one and only difference that comes in mind, as anything else is build from equal packages.
I think my OS uses also a cut version of busybox. Probably it's the java package, I don't know and can't say.
All I know is, it crashes immediately. It doesn't even show the GUI for a micro-second.

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Re: Mix down?

Post by jonetsu »

TAERSH wrote:Yes, you like to run as user, I like to run as root.
You may like beer or wine, I don't.
You may also listen to something/someone different I do.

Probably you should have a look/listen at some speeches of Mr. Stallman...
Well, in this case there are reasons backing it up, it's not only a question of liking/not liking.

As for Stallman, I don't know. I use emacs since quite a long time and that's just about it regarding Stallman (1). Activism does not interest me much. Which does not mean I have no stand point on issues. If you mention something specific he talked about, OK, I can give a listen. But in the broad sense, no.

(1) Recently I posted on a private company board as a reply to a news item that I thought Stallman could have a point when he criticized the public reaction about Epstein and Minsky and I got a remark by the manager that my reply was removed because some people were offended. That's the kind of thing I do not like, this narrowness of thinking which borders on censorship and lack of objectivity. People often forget that in many cases there's one moral person that's assaulted and is rarely mentioned: justice. And then add money. Epstein donated more than $800,000 to the MIT.

Then Stallman had to resign from MIT and the FSF. This is going very far for a remark that has done no harm, really.

Now, the mix down is going awry :)

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TAERSH
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Re: Mix down?

Post by TAERSH »

I did not mention Stallman for activism. It was meant only in connection to running as root. Though, don't have any links.
However activism in that way is not my purpose. I'm a radical democrat and I support copyright as well as copyleft. I support this also in politics, as long as they stand on the German Grundgesetz.
I accept it as is, both has its right to exist. So I do with running as root and/or user. But I prefer definitely to run as root.

To you, and I suspect for almost all users, the root-thingy is some sort of a wall that makes you feel secure and may give some security as well - from you point of view/use.
To me it's just a daily hurdle. I like tweaking my OS when I'm not working with it. I like to play with it like I play my drums. I don't want to change the sticks each time I hit the heads or cymbals.

And for anything around/about Epstein etc.pp. I'm not aware of anything except the headlines one can not get rid off. And I don't want to dig into that stuff - not my workplace, not my place of fun, activism or whatever...
Now, the mix down is going awry
Yes, sometimes it goes that way, but doesn't hurt for real. Creativity like Music and/or Software development etc. needs to have a look from time to time what's left or right the path.

It always could be reset/return to it's original purpose.

So, I was surprised when searching for Reaper to find a version for GNU/Linux. And then it works, even it complains a lot and it's not supported as they wrote. It's a pity, I couldn't find any way to have LV2 plugins available for a use. I think, I will stay with my current setup since all changes on the audio connections to make a mix-down are made automatically by a single click. Revert to original connections also, after mix-down is finished.

And last but not least: I'm not doing everyday a couple of lots of 39 minutes pieces to mix-down. :D

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Re: Mix down?

Post by jonetsu »

TAERSH wrote: To you, and I suspect for almost all users, the root-thingy is some sort of a wall that makes you feel secure and may give some security as well - from you point of view/use.
For using root 'at will' and trying things I use KVM. I certainly do not mess around with the main system I'm using that also serves for music creation.

There's a certain number of people using Reaper here I think. Maybe you can post some very specific problems and software output in the section about DAWs.

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TAERSH
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Re: Mix down?

Post by TAERSH »

Hi.

I was doing my latest three compositions starting with an empty Qtractor template which uses plugins only, no standalone synthesizers.
So, yes Qtractor is capable to export all audio and MIDI plugins quickly. A song about 5:30 doesn't take half the time to export.
And that's quite good!

Now I need to find a way to use Hydrogen as a plugin or at least another plugin that could use the Hydrogen drum kits.
I tried already DrumGizmo, it says loading but nothing else happens. Tried it with my own drum kit and with general midi drum kit.
No success so far. I think I'll post in a DrumGizmo topic about what to do or what I'm doing wrong here.

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Re: Mix down?

Post by milo »

There are lv2 plugins that will load hydrogen drumkits. DRMR is one: https://github.com/falkTX/drmr

I have not used this approach, but I saw it done on a tutorial once, and it may work for you.

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TAERSH
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Re: Mix down?

Post by TAERSH »

Ok, now I see.

I made a mistake thinking DrumGizmo would be DrMr Sampler.

Luckily it's already installed as LV2 plugin and it works out of the box.
It's a bit limited on it's capability of mixing options (only Gain & Pan) and the GUI won't fit into the screen but I think I can live with that. Once setting up a good mix this won't hurt anymore.

Already played a little with it and it seems to be possible to achieve my drum sound nearly 100%.

So, my next song will be composed using that new template - plugins only.
When finished I'll try to export the whole song instead of doing the usual mix-down.

Thanks! :)

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TAERSH
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Re: Mix down?

Post by TAERSH »

Hmm, good news and bad news.

Bad news first:

- Qtractor doesn't store the drum kit chosen for DrMr Sampler - need to load it manually on each song loaded
- DrMr Sampler is limited to 32 instruments per drum kit
- my Hydrogen drum kit has 68 instruments
- it seems to load (GUI has all present), but crashes when playing an instrument above <id>31</id>

Good news:

- Qtractor at least stores the mixer settings of the chosen drum kit for DrMr Sampler
- Qtractor also stores independent from another mixer settings of another DrMr Sampler track
- so, I made two drum kits out of my Hydrogen drum kit to be loaded into two different tracks
- works pretty good so far

Using such setup I'm able to make Qtractor export all tracks quickly.
I made a short song of 2:21 which has been exported in 1:02.

This is a Scramble: https://soundcloud.com/user-633698367/t ... a-scramble

Also pretty good so far.

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