Trying to cover Vangelis Alpha

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Gps
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Trying to cover Vangelis Alpha

Postby Gps » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:51 pm

I am trying to figure out what is happening, but I am totally stuck. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kK_HGNOo9A

The flute ? sound after the swelling sound.

I am not so much looking for the exact sound, but don't get the change in frequency.
I used sonic visualizer on the track, and I can see a curved line going down, when this 'Flute" plays.

When I how ever automate in lmms the pitch of zynaddsubfx, it does not sound like Vangelis at all.

It gets out of key, which does not surprise me, but in the original it does not sound out of key :?

What is going on ? :P

The sound starts around 0.38 , then later a swelling sound comes in followed by this same "flute" sound.

merlyn
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Re: Trying to cover Vangelis Alpha

Postby merlyn » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:49 pm

It sounds like the pitch bend wheel.

To play this you would push the wheel up, play the note, then bring the wheel back or let go, depending on how fast you want it, and the note bends down to a solid pitch.

Automating it may be fiddly so you could try playing it on a MIDI keyboard.

Gps
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Re: Trying to cover Vangelis Alpha

Postby Gps » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:35 pm

Thank you, I don't think my midi controller has a pitch bend wheel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEgDNq96GN4

I stand corrected although its not a wheel it has pitch bend. I will give it a go.

Might have to find a synth with a pitch bend wheel, which I can automate. :)

Synth 1 comes to mind. :)

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bluebell
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Re: Trying to cover Vangelis Alpha

Postby bluebell » Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:16 pm

The vibrato stops after a short time, it's modulated with an envelope generator, probably with
- fast attack
- around 1 second decay
- sustain level 0
- release time doesn't matter
Linux – MOTU UltraLite AVB – Qtractor – https://soundcloud.com/suedwestlicht

merlyn
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Re: Trying to cover Vangelis Alpha

Postby merlyn » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:35 pm

I listened to it again and I think bluebell is right about an envelope generator -- the timing is the same each time. The timing of the bend down into pitch is around the same as the attack of the swelling sound. You would do this in zynaddsubfx by sending an EG to frequency.

You will need pitch bend for the section around 3:19. :)

finotti
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Re: Trying to cover Vangelis Alpha

Postby finotti » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:33 pm

Off-topic: The theme from [the original] "Cosmos" [TV show]! I did not know it was by Vangelis. It does bring some good memories of watching it with my father and brother, many years ago... I really like this theme!

If you don't mind sharing the MIDI, I'd really like it. :-)

Gps
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Re: Trying to cover Vangelis Alpha

Postby Gps » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:43 am

I found a midi file. I will see if I can send it to you, through this forum.

The midi file did confuse me at first, at least some of it, but its great if you like me don't have perfect pitch, and need sheet music or a midi file to find the notes.

There is some in the midi file, of which I am 99% sure Vangelis did some else, but its good enough to get you going.
There is also a synthesia vid btw.


I even have it on vinyl, the elpee Spiral. :mrgreen:

Edit:
Seems I can't use the forum, but I found a link were you can download it. I checked if it the same midi file as I have.
I totally don't like how they did the chimes, and for now I am using a chimes sound that comes with LMMS. :)

http://www.sortmusic.com/_v/vangelis-mi ... a,len.html

Its in C minor, and I have 84 bpm in lmms.

Edit 2

Theme of the tv series cosmos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5m_emrK5zE
Last edited by Gps on Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Gps
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Re: Trying to cover Vangelis Alpha

Postby Gps » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:06 pm

bluebell wrote:The vibrato stops after a short time, it's modulated with an envelope generator, probably with
- fast attack
- around 1 second decay
- sustain level 0
- release time doesn't matter


Thnak you but...
How do I do this in lmms? I know what an envelope is, but not the word envelope generator. :)
Last edited by Gps on Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Gps
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Re: Trying to cover Vangelis Alpha

Postby Gps » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:24 pm

merlyn wrote:I listened to it again and I think bluebell is right about an envelope generator -- the timing is the same each time. The timing of the bend down into pitch is around the same as the attack of the swelling sound. You would do this in zynaddsubfx by sending an EG to frequency.

You will need pitch bend for the section around 3:19. :)


Thank you.

I think I can't automate that in lmms with zynaddsubfx ? ( Or can it be done, without automation ? )

Something I hope gets fixed one day in lmms, you can only automate the knobs on the host window.
With synth1 I can automate all knobs as far as I know.

Makes me wonder, I could try to load zynaddsubfx as a vst. Maybe then I can automate all knobs.
A quick google search gave me something, a guy who claims he could on windows, with the zynaddsubfx vst loaded through Vestige.

That is worth a test at least. Then I can probably also use the newer version of zasfx. :)

Lets hope this does not work only on windows, because I am like all here on Linux. (openSUSE)

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bluebell
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Re: Trying to cover Vangelis Alpha

Postby bluebell » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:57 pm

Gps wrote:
bluebell wrote:The vibrato stops after a short time, it's modulated with an envelope generator, probably with
- fast attack
- around 1 second decay
- sustain level 0
- release time doesn't matter


Thnak you but...
How do I do this in lmms? I know what an envelope is, but not the word envelope generator. :)


I don't know lmms in depth. An envelope generator is this ADSR thingie (attack, decay, sustain, release). Some synths have more than one, some are more flexible in controlling stuff than others. Some control only volume (VCA) and/or filter (VCF), some can modulate an LFO that controls vibrato ...

It looks as Zyn and Yoshimi have a delay for the "frequency LFO" of the ADDsynth only, so you might need a different synth for that special effect, e.g. Helm that has a "MOD ENVELOPE" that can control the volume of an LFO that modifies the oscillators' tune. Matt Tytel's Helm is available as a standalone program and as a plugin.
Linux – MOTU UltraLite AVB – Qtractor – https://soundcloud.com/suedwestlicht

Gps
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Re: Trying to cover Vangelis Alpha

Postby Gps » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:09 pm

Cool thank you.

Just for info.
I found an unofficial zynaddsubfx vst, but I can't automate those controls either. :)

finotti
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Re: Trying to cover Vangelis Alpha

Postby finotti » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:34 pm

Gps wrote:I found a midi file. I will see if I can send it to you, through this forum.

The midi file did confuse me at first, at least some of it, but its great if you like me don't have perfect pitch, and need sheet music or a midi file to find the notes.

There is some in the midi file, of which I am 99% sure Vangelis did some else, but its good enough to get you going.
There is also a synthesia vid btw.


I even have it on vinyl, the elpee Spiral. :mrgreen:

Edit:
Seems I can't use the forum, but I found a link were you can download it. I checked if it the same midi file as I have.
I totally don't like how they did the chimes, and for now I am using a chimes sound that comes with LMMS. :)

http://www.sortmusic.com/_v/vangelis-mi ... a,len.html

Its in C minor, and I have 84 bpm in lmms.


Thanks for taking the time to do that! I really appreciate it! I will take a look and might try to do a version myself, just for fun. But I know very little about synthesis... But I would not mind changing it a bit.


Gps wrote:Edit 2

Theme of the tv series cosmos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5m_emrK5zE


Hmm... I'm sure that they played that one (Alpha) during the show, though... My memory clearly associates the song with the show. (Or did they change the theme song in Brazil? They used to do that... The theme for MacGyvver TV show was Rush's Tom Sawyer there.) :-)

In any event, please post what you make, as I'd very much like to hear it!


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