Studio 13.37 YouTube Video

[l0wt3ch]

you are comaring live cds/pendrives?

doesn't make sense to a serious producer.

Did you even watch the video?

It says right at the beginning that for the comparison we would be using a cd version of Studio 13.37.

[Capoeira]

you are comaring live cds/pendrives?

doesn't make sense to a serious producer.

Did you even watch the video?

It says right at the beginning that for the comparison we would be using a cd version of Studio 13.37.

ok, let me correct:

you are comparing live cds?

doesn't make sense to a serious producer.

[l0wt3ch]

First it compares the distros as being "portable", because they all say they can be run live but we all know that's not really true. (Studio 13.37, however, is.)

Then it compares the performance after being installed, and shows the number of xruns the others get when JACK is run with the same settings for latency.

Sorry if the video isn't clear enough on this point.

[GMaq]

Hi,

I'm not going to whine, complain or argue here, nor am I bothered at all by this comparison, in fact I was quite impressed by the split-screen editing so this is not a 'sour grapes' observation.

I would like to point out for the sake of accuracy in the second 'launching a program test' that in the video AV Linux 6.0 is obviously having Ardour launched on a cold Live Session (ie no other apps have run yet) and when Ardour is launched dssi-vst will launch Wine for it's first run to set up it's config folder and optionally install Gecko which takes several seconds (longer if Gecko installs). If Wine was already run on that Live Session then there would have been a marked difference in how quickly Ardour launched, although I'm a bit confused about why JACK wasn't connected to Ardour since I can't reproduce that here.

Also AV Linux can easily be installed to a USB Key and includes 2 different methods: 1. A native ISOHybrid USB Key Tool found in the Control panel OR 2. Unetbootin (including a persistent option). To be accurate AV Linux will be much faster on a USB Key but doesn't boot to RAM like Studio 13.37 does...More detailed info here: http://bandshed.net/pdf/AV6Manual.pdf

Lastly Reaper on AV Linux is as simple as downloading the 32bit Reaper windows executable and installing it with the included Wine, WineASIO is already there to be used and set up the ASIO Audio Driver.

Just some observations after watching the Video a few times...

[l0wt3ch]

That's true. But it's the same for 13.37, so it's fair. If you watch carefully, you'll see that Studio 13.37 also opens the wine dialog (although the Gecko thing was taken care of in the latest update).

I think you should be proud - of all the Debian/Ubuntu -based distros, yours was the superior product. It may not be of the same calibre as Studio 13.37 (in terms of latency, realtime performance, being portable, etc.), but AV Linux really knocked the pants off of KXStudio, Dream Studio, and Ubuntu Studio. So, congratulations on that.

[Capoeira]

lol.....you gave him food again

[i2productions]

As pointed out earlier in the thread the kxstudio test is hardly fair. Yes it has a live DVD(with many more pieces of software than the rest), but it's not meant to be run live. In a serious studio environment I have no idea what use a live media would serve? Still gotta have another media to save to! Have I used live media for recording, yes. If I'm in the field and using someone else's computer. But, this is a rarity, and AV Linux has performed the task well for me in the past. Now I have my own custom live USB based off kxstudio that boots in less than a minute, gives me stability, and I have even rolled my proprietary windows apps(Reason 5.0 namely, Amplitube,Autotune) into the iso(So unfortunately can't share), and it runs nearly as well as my installed version. Kxstudio is still the superior product in my mind, and here's why. Boot time is irrelevant. I just want all my programs easily installable ans stable, KXStudio provides this, and the 30 second boot time installed on my machine is good enough for me. It comes with software (Particularly the Cadence tools) that have no comparison in these other distros. The simplest tool in the world in that package is my fav. The JACK render tool, which you simply press the record button and it captures ANYTHING going through the sound system. This is a huge advantage when trying to quickly and easily record internet flash media audio, video game audio, etc for sampling purposes. Load times of apps is also rather irrelevant. If you want to test reaction time after load on the same pc after all have loaded, then I would be impressed if one distro over another reported snappier use. KXStudio with Peppermint OS Three is the way to roll for me. The lightweight LXDE and KXStudio are an amazingly snappy combo, and it's 12.04 based, so great stability and support. Also in your last test in your video says KXStudio has no way to change period/buffer which is just not true. I see you using cadence, but apparently you didn't take the time to figure out how much better of a tool than QJackctl it is(And if you had really wanted to change it for the purposes you could have.) You try showing the power of low latency by recording a hydrogen drum track? I have a couple of issues with this test. The latency between apps in the JACK server is 0.1ms so what good does latency do you there? The only time latency is even a factor these days is in the recording of external sources. Also in this test, (while mileage WILL vary from computer to computer) I have never run into that many xruns(even at the frames you have set to) in that short of a period of running one JACK app into another. I hope this video serves you well as a sales tool thrown together with slight of hand and a little "magic" in conning the windows population into jumping ship!

[l0wt3ch]

As noted earlier in this thread, the boot time is only part of a test of the suitability of the distros for running live, which they are obviously not well-suited for. Studio 13.37, on the other hand, is completely portable.

The last test of the video was all of the distros running off of the hard drive, and was fairly and accurately depicted. If anything, it was *too* kind to KXStudio, as KX was tested using the stock JACK settings that it came with, not lowered to 64 frames/period like the others.

I personally don't have any use for the "Cadence tools". I prefer Qjackctl and the other usual interfaces. As well, a lot of it is just workarounds for KDE and Ubuntu - adding yourself to the audio group, for example, or the pulseaudio-jack bridge.

Come back when you've actually tried Studio 13.37, i2productions. Then you can speak with intelligence on the subject. (That is, if you don't believe the video footage, which is accurate.)

[l0wt3ch]

I'm sorry if that sounds insulting falkTX. I'm not trying to imply that your Cadence tools have no purpose - in your distro, they certainly do. And they are very pretty, also. It's just that I personally prefer Qjackctl, etc. And many of the features of your "tools" don't apply to my distro, which doesn't come with pulseaudio, etc.

As for "getting it free", you actually can't. Sure, if you wanted, you might be able to build something similar. But you would have to spend months doing it, full-time, if you wanted to take it to the same level. Assuming your time is worth something, that translates into it not being free.

As for the quote, I was being rhetorical. I actually hope i2productions never tries Studio 13.37, because then he would have more fodder for his nasty little comments.

[karm]

I'm sorry if that sounds insulting falkTX. I'm not trying to imply that your Cadence tools have no purpose - in your distro, they certainly do.

No, you did want to imply that. If you didn't you would at least try to make your statement more polite. You are dishonest and tiring. Instead of promoting your distro you're doing black PR. Fortunately, nobody cares.

[l0wt3ch]

Hmm. Well, you're right, I did mean what I said. It's true - I have no use for the "Cadence tools".

As for the rest... seems like you're the one doing "negative PR" (pssht!).

The fact is, I made a simple video comparing different distros, and some people can't handle the truth. To them, it's like sports teams or something - "Uhh, well I use KX Studio, so it's better!"

The nice thing about the JACK audio server is that you actually can compare latencies on different systems. It's not just opinion anymore at that point. Anyone who doesn't believe I was accurate with the video can easily download the other four distros and do the same tests, and they will get the same results. KXStudio and Dream Studio will be the slowest, with the worst latencies.

Just sayin'.

[i2productions]

As for the quote, I was being rhetorical. I actually hope i2productions never tries Studio 13.37, because then he would have more fodder for his nasty little comments.

Don't worry I won't. I didn't make any nasty comments this time, only pointed out the holes in your logic of these tests! If you want I can resume with wonderfully nasty comments but won't for the sake of keeping this forum peaceful.

I personally don't have any use for the "Cadence tools". I prefer Qjackctl and the other usual interfaces. As well, a lot of it is just workarounds for KDE and Ubuntu - adding yourself to the audio group, for example, or the pulseaudio-jack bridge.

That is part of it sure. It also takes over all the functions of QJackCtl, adds the ability to graphicly manipulate some parts of wineasio, and allow you to launch all the other cadence tools like the best patchbay available for linux(Catia), the JACK Render Tool, XY manipulation, etc. If you don't have use for them, then you're not a producer or musician, they add a lot of depth and ease of use to the linux audio ecosystem.

The fact is, I made a simple video comparing different distros, and some people can't handle the truth. To them, it's like sports teams or something - "Uhh, well I use KX Studio, so it's better!"

If it was the truth I could handle it. Truth is I have compared ALL of these distros except yours, and I have never run into the negative aspects you are showing in this video. So this leads me to believe one of three things. Either you doctored the video to the outcomes, your computer isn't well suited to audio work, or you have no idea what you are doing to install these distros. Since the last two are unlikely, I'm going with my first assumption, since I've run all these same tests.

It's not just opinion anymore at that point. Anyone who doesn't believe I was accurate with the video can easily download the other four distros and do the same tests, and they will get the same results. KXStudio and Dream Studio will be the slowest, with the worst latencies.

I haven't worked extensively with Dream, but have tried it, and I can say with absolute certainty the KXStudio produces the BEST latency out of any of the tested distros(other than your untested) and the fewest xruns. Now all that being said, as usual mileage will vary between computer builds and audio interfaces for each person.

In conclusion I will concede *It appears* as though your distro is probably the best suited to running live out of all of them. The only live distro I have ever tried and worked well was AV Linux, and there is a lot of room for improvement in this area. However, as several people have mentioned what benifit is that to a customer? You still have to have other media to save your work to. I mean the first things I would want to add is Reason 5.0, and that's over 2 gigs. So how well is anything going to run when I have one usb for the distro and another for a big piece of music work, and then plug in another one to save my files to. Seems like a whole lotta USB lag to me?(Cause I've tried that very scenario with AV Linux live with very bad results!) As for latencies, you video doesn't show any meaningful latency test. I want to see external audio captured(by an independent source) to show actual latency usage. Keep up the good work for the 4 or 5 people that purchase your product!

[l0wt3ch]

I didn't make any nasty comments this time...

If you don't have use for them, then you're not a producer or musician...

Either you doctored the video to the outcomes, your computer isn't well suited to audio work, or you have no idea what you are doing to install these distros...

Keep up the good work for the 4 or 5 people that purchase your product!

You see what I mean? "Haterz gonna hate..."

As for your opinions, you have a track record of being a KXStudio fanboy from way back, so you're hardly unbiased. After all, it was you who wrote a negative "review" of Studio 4 without even having tried it, and posted it to your website, back when you were trying to be a reviewer. Additionally, from some of the comments you've made around here, I'm not even sure you really understand how the whole JACK/latency thing works. So, please, get out of my thread, and take your uninformed comments somewhere else.

[GMaq]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAomAwIwxm8

[SR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAomAwIwxm8

Exactly what I was thinking. The Linux audio community is too small for this. Now would be a good time to start showing some class.